New year, new winch mod.

[Peter]

New year, new winch mod.

http://www.gigglepin4x4.net/8274/twinmotor.htm

[Mo Murphy]

Yum Yum, but too rich for me I fear Great film of it in action though ! What a piece of kit !

Mo

[FridgeFreezer]

Great film but drive-assisting (valid technique though it is) means you can't be sure what's the winch and what's the vehicle. I know Jim will probably say it's more winch than vehicle etc. and he may be right, but it doesn't really show you what the winch can(t) do by itself. Same test with engine off would be far more interesting.

Also why no prices on the website? That really annoys me - it takes no effort and no money to put prices on a website so why do people put "POA" or "£call" or other bobbins? Anyone would think he was making it up

[honitonhobbit]

Great film but drive-assisting (valid technique though it is) means you can't be sure what's the winch and what's the vehicle. I know Jim will probably say it's more winch than vehicle etc. and he may be right, but it doesn't really show you what the winch can(t) do by itself. Same test with engine off would be far more interesting.

Also why no prices on the website? That really annoys me - it takes no effort and no money to put prices on a website so why do people put "POA" or "£call" or other bobbins? Anyone would think he was making it up

Odd thing is that he has prices elsewhere on what is a nice website. I do like the sound of his hiem jointed radius arms at what seems a fair price.

[D9OSV]

Great film but drive-assisting (valid technique though it is) means you can't be sure what's the winch and what's the vehicle. I know Jim will probably say it's more winch than vehicle etc. and he may be right, but it doesn't really show you what the winch can(t) do by itself. Same test with engine off would be far more interesting.

Also why no prices on the website? That really annoys me - it takes no effort and no money to put prices on a website so why do people put "POA" or "£call" or other bobbins? Anyone would think he was making it up

Happy new year.......

Not been around for a few weeks due to new arrival in the family

Fridge i know you run a MM so of course i will take your comments with the intended wit required.

Please remember that NOT drive assisting is Not an option, in any realistic winch pull......Period.

If you also check this video closely you will notice that there is absoulutely ZERO drive.

However, due to the nature of the winch and the drive train, the speed of which is matched, the wheels turn the same speed as the winch pulls.

I do not know what you call this? We call it perfection.

I also fully accept that the video really does not show how steep the hill is, so you only have our word for it.

To give you some kind of idea, the first hill shown was attempted by Paul Wightman 2 to 3 years ago using Piggy with a PTO winch, he failed this climb due to not being able to drive assist

The dots at the bottom of the second larger hill...? Well, they are people.

However, let me give it some more context, During the "Summer challenge" of 2005 we also used this site. This set of hills was deemed to dangerous to use as we felt that the majority of winches, cables and crews could not cope with the severity of it.

This site has also been used by many other offroaders.........

All have declined this hill due to its severity.

This said, safety is paramount and i would not expect others to do the same.

However to prove the winches worth, sometimes these mountains must be conquered.

We are at present setting dates for load testing under controlled situations, these figures will of course be readily available when the tests have been carried out.

Oh, prices....?

As follows:

Twinmotor housing complete ready to fit less motors £650+vat

I believe considerably less than a PTO system, tank, valve block etc for your existing MM.......

But then i might be wrong

Any futher questions please do not hesitate to ask.

Once again, Happy New Year

Jim

[white90]

Looks Like a fantastic piece of work/kit Jim

Well done for being able to produce such an item.

[ashtrans]

Hi Jim,

congrats on the new baby,

looks like a well engineered bit of kit,

[will_warne]

Very nice, Jim. I just need a vehicle to fit winches to now

[pugwash]

looks like a beautifully engineered piece of kit- it's really encouraging to see people pushing things on.

You and Si R, being the antithesis of sracpiron, are an asset to the land rover world and if i had any wish to buy a copmetitive electric winch i know where i would be going.

what next?

[LR90]

what next?

Extra long drum version with twin motors mounted both ends might be fun

[pugwash]

and a small self contained nuclear power station to run it

[FridgeFreezer]

and a small self contained nuclear power station to run it

Pugwash, you bitch

Fridge i know you run a MM so of course i will take your comments with the intended wit required.

No MM here, 109 is in build with H14W up front and sorely tempted to bolt my spare H14W in the back for sheer obscenity As it happens I might put a leccy in the back just to cover both bases

Please remember that NOT drive assisting is Not an option, in any realistic winch pull......Period.

Fair enough, but if you want to prove a winch's capabilities helping it out by driving removes a lot of the point of the test doesn't it? It'd be like measuring the winch's maximum pull by hooking it to a load cell, stalling it and then putting the vehicle in reverse and seeing what the reading is. YES the winch is doing some of the work, but you can't really quantify how much.

If you also check this video closely you will notice that there is absoulutely ZERO drive.

Why drive assist then?

I also fully accept that the video really does not show how steep the hill is, so you only have our word for it.

It looks F steep to me, no worries there

I believe considerably less than a PTO system, tank, valve block etc for your existing MM.......

But then i might be wrong

Well my first H14 was £500 including the PTO, tank, valves, everything and a 3kva hydraulic generator(!) chucked in too. The spare one was £350, again full kit and kaboodle. For £650 I could buy myself a variable-vane PTO pump, an uprated motor and probably have enough left for a small electric hydro pump from a tipper should the worst happen and the engine not be running.

[saley]

i like electric winches but haveing seen the type R working and electric ons braking i have gone for type R

and had enough change to pay for every event i am entering this year

2 x 8274 winches £830 each £1660

2X gigglepin housings £650 each £1300

2 x motors £200 each £400

2x optima (or similar) batterys £100 each £200

better alternater £50 £50

£3610+vat £4241.75

type R setup cost myself £2219.23

propshaft £150

Hydraulic pipe work £200

£2569.23 + vat 3018.85

i think that say it all

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Not been around for a few weeks due to new arrival in the family

Congratulations Jim .............. that will keep you busy

Please remember that NOT drive assisting is Not an option, in any realistic winch pull......Period.

You bad man Jim ...................you obviously failed your commercial winch training course then ?

All have declined this hill due to its severity.

I would not decline ............ when can I come and play.

Also congratulations on what looks to be a superb product that will fill a large hole in the market ........... especially as it appears to be reasonably priced.

Well done Jim & a Happy new year to you and yours.

Ian

[D9OSV]

Well my first H14 was £500 including the PTO, tank, valves, everything and a 3kva hydraulic generator(!) chucked in too. The spare one was £350, again full kit and kaboodle. For £650 I could buy myself a variable-vane PTO pump, an uprated motor and probably have enough left for a small electric hydro pump from a tipper should the worst happen and the engine not be running.

Granted very reasonable, but second hand.....

I'm not trying to get into a argument, so we'll leave it there

This point about Drive assist, and winching of your vehicle.....i'm getting confused as to what roll you wish your winch to have?

Do you require your winch to be a unit that is designed for moving static loads...?

Or a unit to assist a load capable of movement...?

These are two very different requirements, however one will do the other, but of course that is not for what it was designed.

There are few recovery situations where drive assist is a hazard, if carried out in a controlled manner, (i'm not speaking of the wheel spinning, tyre smoking antic's of some) it becomes by far the most effient way of releaving stresses on a stranded vehicle and it's recovery equipment.

The real reason most do not use drive assist, is purely one of that there winch is not actually fast enough to allow them to do this without slippng the clutch (auto's not included).

There for, they are taught not to do so.

Drive assist is to winching what abs is to braking hard. It allows you to have control of the sistuation, and still have some, if limited steerage way.

This is why it is so important on any vehicle where forward motion is to be mantained. Winching a vehicle through a bog with Zero assist, soon leads to the vehicle diving, and then causing far greater difficulltys in recovery.

The requirement of a winch that can pull 6 tonne or more, is to be frank daft, unless you require a vehicle to remove static loads such as tree stumps etc.....

If a vehicle is that badly stuck that forward motion is impossible,

STOP WINCHING because you are about to break something.

I hope that goes some way to helping you understand what we are actually trying to do with our winches and our techiques.

Please feel free to ask more questions

Regards

Jim

Ps: Dave, Congratulations yourself, i hope you had a good Chriatmas You back at work? Will call tomorrow.

[D9OSV]

i like electric winches but haveing seen the type R working and electric ons braking i have gone for type R

and had enough change to pay for every event i am entering this year

2 x 8274 winches £830 each £1660

2X gigglepin housings £650 each £1300

2 x motors £200 each £400

2x optima (or similar) batterys £100 each £200

better alternater £50 £50

£3610+vat £4241.75

type R setup cost myself £2219.23

propshaft £150

Hydraulic pipe work £200

£2569.23 + vat 3018.85

i think that say it all

Think you've missed the point.....

Most already have 8274's, twin batteries, Larger alternaters, Albrights, etc......

So what it should read is

Type 'R' £3018.85

Or Twinmotor conversion

£650+vat

I think THAT says it all

[D9OSV]

Ps: John you quoted for ONE type 'R'

And for TWO 8274's.......

Again....

I think that says it all

[white90]

A commercial winch training course is somewhat dis similar to winching practice during competitions.

and written for a different environment.

Drive assist makes it easier for the winch and forward momentum is easier, an Underdrive also gives the perfect wheel/winch ratio.

It comes down to do you want the best of anything?

a MM in standard form is a POS for competition work

a Type R is obviously better suited or a set up Like Ian/Nigels

an 8274 is common as it is a good winch easily upgraded.

taken to the highest level by Jim.

all personal choice

we should all count ourselves lucky there is so much choice and people like Jim/Dave making such products.

and in my own personal experience when it really mattered the 8274 kept working when an XP and ryders cheapo version had died leaving 2 vehicles swimming in Strata florida.

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

This debate could rage on for years……..

Yes, ………… its all personal choice…….

I know how much mine has cost and by the time I fit the rear, it will not nave been a cheap exercise …….. but that’s the choice I made.

As Jim rightly implies the choice to drive assist is fully that of the driver and I guess that as long as all concerned are fully aware of any dangers then it is probably acceptable.

BTW: The main reason drive assist is frowned upon is the additional shock loads that it introduces on both the winch rope (mainly where wire is concerned) and the winch.

Hang on guys ……….. lets just look at the bottom line here………

Jim has developed a product that works ………. He has not been shy about its testing and teething troubles ………….. I take my hat off to the guy

Ian

[white90]

Well Put Ian

now if only your choice of winch was as good

[pugwash]

we should all count ourselves lucky there is so much choice and people like Jim/Dave making such products.

Here here,

i'm a Hyd fan, but that's kind of irrelevant. I think we should all applaud anyone who truthfully and honestly designs products that work for us, and can be developed in a way that benefits us- there are too many people out there who don't care about their customers or provide what they want.

frankly i couldn't care if a winch is hydraulic, electric or solar powered if someone is taking the time to develope thinks that work then i'm happy as it's far beyond my ken.

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Well Put Ian

now if only your choice of winch was as good

As I am not a great believer in anything Worn then there is absolutely nothing wrong with my choice ………..

I guess that when your heated seats pack up, you’ll be able to warm your butt on your cooking winch motor

Ian

[SiWhite]

Jim,

Lovely product, well done!

I imagine you're running 24v? What amperage is the alt putting out? And whay batteries are you running?

Si

[FridgeFreezer]

And did you stick a current clamp on the main battery lead whilst doing the tests? If not, will you next time?

[white90]

As I am not a great believer in anything Worn then there is absolutely nothing wrong with my choice ………..

I guess that when your heated seats pack up, you’ll be able to warm your butt on your cooking winch motor

Ian

Heated seats they won't pack up they are wired in professionally

funny to add that the motor has never got too hot to touch, granted the original one I had way back was a similar temperature to the surface of the Sun after a day at Slindon with Will.