Mo Murphy Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 5 hours ago, reb78 said: Are helicoils really strong enough? I stripped a thread in an aluminium casting and put a helicoil in. I did it properly but it still feels like it is going to strip something if i torque to the massive 11nm torque the manual says! I use a small torque wrench on these delicate fastenings as I am conscious my monkey tight isn't that delicate! You're doing it wrong Rich. I have literally done hundreds from M6 to M14 into aluminium, steel and cast iron and have never experienced that. As mentioned above, drill it straight, tap it straight and make sure the insert is long enough to do the job. HTH Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 I'm not sure the inserts I have will be long enough. Is it possible to stack them? I don't want to bugger this up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Mo Murphy said: You're doing it wrong Rich. I have literally done hundreds from M6 to M14 into aluminium, steel and cast iron and have never experienced that. As mentioned above, drill it straight, tap it straight and make sure the insert is long enough to do the job. HTH Mo I cant imagine how though Mo. I did it exactly as you say and expected the torque wrench to click at a certain point when tightening up at the end and it just felt like it was going to take more than it should. Weird. Its fine as it was just the sump on my overdrive and doesnt leak when nipped up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 Could it have been the insert turning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, monkie said: Could it have been the insert turning? Maybe. It sounds like the inserts will be fine for you though Phil. Everyone else has found them good. Someone recommended these to me the other day in place of helicoils https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BaerFix-Self-Tapping-damaged-Thread-Repair-Kits-Inserts-Metric-Imperial-Sizes-/143490339378?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0 they were to repair a potentially pulled thread in a td5 head where the exhaust manifold has warped. I dont know which is best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted August 8, 2021 Author Share Posted August 8, 2021 I've not heard of those Richard. It seems to me that although they all are based around inserting something that in one form or another is itself threaded to accept the bolt; they look to me to require different amounts of metal to be removed to accept the inserts. I'm nervous of removing too much metal in the block and causing a weakness somewhere. Probably over thinking it, but I don't want to bugger the block up of all things! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 I have seen an article in a classic bike mag where they simply drill and tap to put a larger diameter bolt in then cut off flush and re-drill and tap std size. So very similar to those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 On 8/8/2021 at 8:14 PM, monkie said: I'm not sure the inserts I have will be long enough. Is it possible to stack them? I don't want to bugger this up? I've already answered that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 On 8/8/2021 at 10:17 PM, reb78 said: Maybe. It sounds like the inserts will be fine for you though Phil. Everyone else has found them good. Someone recommended these to me the other day in place of helicoils https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BaerFix-Self-Tapping-damaged-Thread-Repair-Kits-Inserts-Metric-Imperial-Sizes-/143490339378?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0 they were to repair a potentially pulled thread in a td5 head where the exhaust manifold has warped. I dont know which is best. Wurth timeserts are the bees knees for thread repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted August 10, 2021 Author Share Posted August 10, 2021 9 hours ago, vulcan bomber said: I've already answered that. Yes, sorry I wasn't clear. How I read your response was that you did say you has seen it done but that you hadn't done it yourself. My concern is that the burr left by the tang on the top insert would prevent a good alignment with the bottom insert. I think I might try it on some scrap first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurbie Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 i wouldn't stack helicoil's , it is very difficult to get the threads at the exact location (the bottom coil of the top helicoil needs to be at the precies right place in relation to the top coil of the bottom one ....) i would look for a longer insert . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted August 10, 2021 Author Share Posted August 10, 2021 ^^^This is my concern; but surely the helicoil follows the threaded path you created when you ran the tap provided in the kit through the hole which will automatically align them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 27 minutes ago, monkie said: ^^^This is my concern; but surely the helicoil follows the threaded path you created when you ran the tap provided in the kit through the hole which will automatically align them? That is my expectation, you are not gluing two items together and hoping for correct spacing. It will be in the same thread so must be aligned. The tang is designed to break off out of harms way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 If you measure the length of thread on the bolt you will get an idea of the length of the helicoil you need, as Mr V.Bomber suggests, and esp considering what it's doing, rather than stacking them it seems wise to use the longest possible. I'd check the thread on the bolt goes all the way into the block as well before assuming that's the length you need. Helicoils are available in length as multiple of diameter eg Link, Link, so ideally you'd use something like M12 x 1.5 2D. I have seen recommendations to loctite them in to stop them coming out when dismantling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted August 10, 2021 Author Share Posted August 10, 2021 Thank you for that. What does the "2D" mean in terms of the size of the helicoil insert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawklord Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 The length of a wire thread insert is calculated as a multiple of the diameter:e.g. M8 x 2D the insert length = 16mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, monkie said: Thank you for that. What does the "2D" mean in terms of the size of the helicoil insert? 2 times the diameter. A thread is at its strongest at 1.5xD, after that I'd doesnt gain anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 Update: I drilled the offending hole (17 on the tightening sequence), tapped it, inserted an M12x1.5x1.5D helicoil insert. New Elring head gasket, head back on, tightened up the bolts (with a bit of grease under the heads which contact the top of the cylinder head). This time all went with no fuss to the 40Nm, 60' and second 60'. Very relieved! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Nice one, they can be a satisfying repair, inserts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted August 23, 2021 Author Share Posted August 23, 2021 All built up and joined with the stumpy gearbox. Waiting on a couple parts for before I put the LT230 on. I'm trying to remove the 19J complete with gearbox and transferbox as one unit. It's putting up one hell of a fight. Anyone got any tips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Quote I'm trying to remove the 19J complete with gearbox and transferbox as one unit. but its already removed, think you have a typo error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted August 23, 2021 Author Share Posted August 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, western said: but its already removed, think you have a typo error No, that picture is of the 200Tdi and the R380 stumpy (both nice and clean). I still have the 19J with LT77 and old transfer box still insitu (caked in grime). I have removed the handbrake cable, tunnel and gearstick, propshafts are also off. Disconnected the engine interms of pipes, electrics, fuel etc and removed the front including the radiator entirely. The 4 mounts are undone and I have managed to get the while unit up and moved forward about 3 cm but now it wont budge any further. It was the exahust mounting bracket on the gearbox that was catching, but even with that removed I can't it to move forwards any more. I can't see what its sticking on. The bellhousing is just clear of the bulkhead so it isn't that either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 lower section of gearlever catching on bulkhead or rear end catching or being held by the gearbox mounts/cross member , can't think of anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted August 23, 2021 Author Share Posted August 23, 2021 I think it might just be a case of wiggling it around a bit and getting the load level right on the hoist. As far as I can tell it needs to come straight and forward for a bit to get off the mounts then engine up/transfer box down. I haven't removed the cross member yet but I'm not sure I'll get away with leaving it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 with the cross member removed you should be able to tilt the complete unit tail down then it should hopefully come out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.