Long-term suitability of enamel paint?

[Woody3]

I'm in the process of spraying my Ninety, but I'm a little unsure of which way to go in terms of the painting system.

Originally I was going to use Paintman's enamel paint and roller it.  However, I've now decided to spray it instead.

My mate is a sprayer and is a little concerned about using the fast drying enamel paint and would rather use a modern system.  He's worried the enamel will be too soft long term, i.e. ease of scratching from hedges etc on country lanes and the fact that it will likely dull over time.  My Ninety is a keeper btw, so I want it looking good for as long as possible!

I can't seem to find any long term reviews about using enamel paint on Land Rovers and just wondered if anyone has any first hand experience?

Thanks!

Edited July 14, 2021 by Woody3

[Gazzar]

Yes, after 40 years the paint on my 109 is tired, and shows evidence of green laning, as well as battle scars.

 

I presume it's enamel.

 

If you want a permanent shiny super tough paint I think you'll need 2k.

[Mo Murphy]

The rollered coach enamel on my 90 is now 10 years old and requires repainting from 10 years of being dragged down hedges.

Mo

[Woody3]

Thanks chaps.

I guess after 40 years, a respray should be expected, but I was hoping it would last longer than 10 years.

Mo Murphy - would you say 2k paint would have been better suited and not suffered as much damage as the enamel paint?

[Mo Murphy]

I don't know woody TBH.

I suppose it all boils down to what you are going to use it for.

What I did know was that I didn't want to pay 2 or 3k on paintwork and then drag it down a hedge.

And I've seen that Hawthorn, blackthorn, bramble etc are not respecting of any paint, expensive or otherwise.

Hth

Mo

[smallfry]

I started my apprenticeship in body and paint in 1976. Coach enamel was the thing to use in the 1970s,by those who wanted to DIY or couldnt afford a respray.  

Was used by those who built railway carriages, busses, horseboxes, and horse drawn carriages etc. Which were generally skinned with plywood.

Not really suitable for automotive use, as it is fairly soft and tends to fade and dull down. Also was generally brush applied, and required a certain amount of skill and experience to get a good finish. Also it cannot be machine polished or Manually polished with T-Cut If it was thinned in order to spray it, you had to be very careful to avoid runs and tended to give an orange peel finish. Paint a chassis or an engine block with it by all means, but I would not use it on bodywork.

I would use 2k preferably or cellulose, which was the original finish on the series vehicles. Although modern "cellulose" is not really the same as what was used in the Seventies and Eighties and also prior to that.

Or are you really talking about modern cellulose, which is described as a "synthetic enamel" ? This can be polished if required.

 

[Gazzar]

I assumed we were talking about synthetic enamel, to be honest, but I know very little about paint, bar there are water, solvent and 2 part types.

[Anderzander]

If you can afford 2pac - it is very good paint. 
 

However - I think synthetic enamel is an entirely different proposition to the old coach enamel. I thought it was commonly described as very hard wearing paint? 
 

My series is in 2pac, though that’s because I didn’t think about it and just gave it to someone to paint and left it up to them !  - when I touch bits in though it’s with enamel. 

 

[smallfry]

I have looked at the Paintman website, and they describe it as synthetic Coach Enamel. They then go on to say that it cannot be machined polished, which suggests to me that it is not hard wearing.

Synthetic Enamel is a hard wearing paint used on plant and machinery. These would not normally be machine polished or waxed in any case, but machinery does tend to lose its gloss over time. 

[bethp]

Coach Enamel is a hardwearing paint. If you wanted to machine polish it you could, but you would need to wait until it is fully dry which would be around 8 weeks. The only reason it is recommended against is because you can't ever get the full gloss shine back again once you have taken the top surface off. 

As long as you upkeep your paintwork with wax polish then the finish will continue to last for years. It is down to the owner.

 

[Eightpot]

The stuff sold as enamel these days is 1k synthetic polyeurethane. It's main drawback versus 2k polyeurethane is the hardening time - hours v weeks.  It's cheaper and safer to use though as no isocyanates. Once hardened, it's very tough.

1k poly is for industrial applications so only available in RAL and BS colours as a rule, no metalics. You can get it mixed in a close colour to factory paint with a colour match device from an auto paint shop. 

For a series LR that used BS paint colours, a green laner, ex mod etc synthetic is absolutely fine, for a smart modern defender you want to invest in & keep, go 2k. 

 

[monkie]

I'd love to respray using 2k but I think it's out of my DIY at home scope, so I've always used the coach enamel from paintman paints. I have found that it fades very quickly, although I have achieved a very acceptable finish by brush which saves all the faff associated with spraying. 

What is the wisdom on the raptor clear coat on top of the coach paint? 

[SteveG]

36 minutes ago, monkie said:

I'd love to respray using 2k but I think it's out of my DIY at home scope, so I've always used the coach enamel from paintman paints. I have found that it fades very quickly, although I have achieved a very acceptable finish by brush which saves all the faff associated with spraying. 

What is the wisdom on the raptor clear coat on top of the coach paint? 

Raptor needs a good key to adhere, so you’d have to abrade the coach paint before applying. You’d also have to let the coach enamel fully gas out before overcoating and lastly Raptor finish is Satin at best.

So in a nutshell - no good 😉😉😉

[monkie]

36 minutes ago, SteveG said:

Raptor needs a good key to adhere, so you’d have to abrade the coach paint before applying. You’d also have to let the coach enamel fully gas out before overcoating and lastly Raptor finish is Satin at best.

So in a nutshell - no good 😉😉😉

That's saved me some money and effort. Thanks! 👍

[reb78]

Well, this thread might have scuppered my plans!! But in a good, didn't waste my time, kind of way!

I am about to start stripping my 110 to rebuild onto a new chassis. I am now thinking perhaps I should take the body parts to a body shop to be sprayed. I dont want a concourse finish necessarily but I do want a long lasting one. I was going to use paint from paintman too and spray it myself but it sounds like I will be disappointed with the finish in a few years... I am not touching 2k paint at home as I have heard some H&S horror stories.

[monkie]

9 minutes ago, reb78 said:

Well, this thread might have scuppered my plans!! But in a good, didn't waste my time, kind of way!

I am about to start stripping my 110 to rebuild onto a new chassis. I am now thinking perhaps I should take the body parts to a body shop to be sprayed. I dont want a concourse finish necessarily but I do want a long lasting one. I was going to use paint from paintman too and spray it myself but it sounds like I will be disappointed with the finish in a few years... I am not touching 2k paint at home as I have heard some H&S horror stories.

I don't think this picture has come out very well but hopefully gives you an idea of the fade. I sprayed the doors about 2 years ago and brushed the body about 1 month ago, both with the same paint from paintman. The pros are it is cheap and easy to do at home, the brush finish is surprisingly good. The cons, it fades quickly. 

 

[Retroanaconda]

45 minutes ago, reb78 said:

Well, this thread might have scuppered my plans!! But in a good, didn't waste my time, kind of way!

I am about to start stripping my 110 to rebuild onto a new chassis. I am now thinking perhaps I should take the body parts to a body shop to be sprayed. I dont want a concourse finish necessarily but I do want a long lasting one. I was going to use paint from paintman too and spray it myself but it sounds like I will be disappointed with the finish in a few years... I am not touching 2k paint at home as I have heard some H&S horror stories.

This is exactly what I am doing. I am neither set up for nor do I have the skills to paint it at home. I could buy the kit and learn for less than the pro-job but that would take time I don’t have.

The paint shop is doing a far better job than I could have done and much faster. I’m also not after a concours finish but I want the panels well protected.

[reb78]

Are you pretty much going down to individual bare panels James? Out of interest, what ball park cost are we looking at? I just want to know what I am letting myself in for - i want to do this once and not touch it again for another 30 years! It will become my sons problem then!!

[Retroanaconda]

Yep - this was the first batch and came in at about £600. I reckon I’ll be in for about £2,000-2,500 by the time the rest is done. So cheaper than a built up vehicle respray as you remove the requirement for them to strip down and mask stuff, but not by much. Plus personally I think it’s a better job getting each panel done separately.

I’m sure I could have reduced the cost further by doing some of the rubbing down first, but frankly I’d rather pay someone else to do it!

[reb78]

Thanks for that. I can live with that sort of cost as part of this rebuild! I was worried we would be 3-4 times that amount!

[Eightpot]

If you want to go 2k, arrange to get 2 or 3 litres mixed up in advance as it works out cheaper and your bodyshop can draw what they need with less waste and you will have a consistent colour mix. 

[joe1]

Just to add - at the risk of providing confusion with another option - that you can add 10% of 2k hardener to some synthetic enamels (Lechler is the one I know of). This supposedly, according to Lechler, makes the finish harder and more chip resistant.But I don't have any longterm experience of how well this finish holds up fade-wise so I can't really recommend it, but it does perhaps provide an option for non-spraying application. The question of whether isos are present in brush/roller application is undecided - but I would err on the cautious side and use a A2/P3 mask anyway. But at least you wouldnt be spraying isos around the neighbourhood with that method.....