monkie Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 The MOT is booked for my 110 with my rebuilt 200Tdi. On a few test runs I have done it is extremely smokey and I don't mean excess oil from the rebuild but black smoke as soon as I touch the accelerator pedal (but boy does it have a kick to it ). I know the boost pressure has been adjusted as I'm registering 1 bar on my gauge and I know the pump has a boost pin fitted as I was given the original pin in a box with the engine when I got it. It feels like good fun, but for now and for the MOT I want to get it back to as near factory settings as I can for a 200Tdi. I can always play with it later on once I have my MOT in hand and I have got a few hundred miles on the rebuilt engine to bed it in. Maybe I'll get a new bigger intercooler one day... I've looked at the How To Increase The Performance Of Your 200/300tdi thread on the technical archive so I can work backwards - have I understood it correctly with the following to undo any tuning and reduce smoke? Decrease boost pressure by increasing the length of the actuator arm on the turbo (aiming for 0.7-0.8 bar). Decreasing boost means I now need to reduce fuel output from the injection pump. Reduce off boost smoke adjustment screw by removing the pressed cap ontop of the boost diaphragm housing and turning the torx screw anticlockwise up to 2 turns (my understanding is this is adjusting the resting position of the diaphragm to control off boost smoke). Reduce boost smoke remove the 4 screws and take off the diaphragm cap, note the position of the diaphragm and turn it upto 120 degrees anticlockwise (maybe just 90 degrees first and see how it is). What about reinstalling the original boost pin? Increase pressure on the diaphragm spring by turning the star wheel anti-clockwise half a turn. (the tamper proof seal is still fitted to the power ajustment screw so I will leave it alone and I don't think it has been adjusted off factory settings) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Don't decrease boost pressure, more air is good. I would start by reducing off-boost fuelling be turning the grub screw above the diaphragm anti- clockwise, one turn at a time, test & note results through the range. I don't know how much the profile of the boost pins differs to the maximum fueling profile of a standard pin, but assuming its equal or a little more you shouldn't get too much smoke, that would fail an mot anyway. You may find the star wheel has been screwed down, I'd knock that back half turn at a time to see what happens - if still too much smoke after say three turns, swap the original pin back in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted November 19, 2021 Author Share Posted November 19, 2021 I'll have a go tomorrow and see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 I'd up the boost a little. Mine maxes at about 1.5 bar but I have tuned it to run with the overdrive. I'd see what its like with 1.3 bar max - you wont be running at that thats the mad it will hit. It doesnt sound like your off boost fuelling is wrong as you arent smoking till you hit the accelerator pedal so I dont know what the screw on the top of the diaphragm housing will acheive here. I agree on the starwheel - the starwheel is a funny one and people fiddle with it and lose the start point. It sets the preload on the spring on the diaphragm so if it reacts with smoke immediately you could try winding it out so it reacts less readily Otherwise i might back off the pump pressure screw on the back of the pump 1/8 turn at a time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 Thank you Richard. Okay, so I will for now leave the boost alone. Probably achieve nothing by adjusting the off boost smoke setting. I will turn the star wheel out by 1 turn and see what that does and then turn the pin by 90 degrees. By the looks of things I don't think the power adjustment screw had been touched, I don't want to muck about with that if it is at factory settings. @reb78is this adjustment you mean...? The slotted screw at the back of the pump next to the fuel return pipe that is locked in place by a locking nut with a tamper proof seal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Yep^^ What pin are you going to rotate? If you have a 'performance pin' fitted, they only go in one way. I'd probably put the old pin back in with the deepest profile on the cone facing towards the front of the engine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 41 minutes ago, reb78 said: Yep^^ What pin are you going to rotate? If you have a 'performance pin' fitted, they only go in one way. I'd probably put the old pin back in with the deepest profile on the cone facing towards the front of the engine. Ahhh, that's the bit I didn't understand... Very good question indeed. In the light of this revelation I shall be putting the old pin back in!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Also, you dont need to rotate that pin randomly. The deeper the profile on the cone (pointing towards the front of the car) the more fuel goes in as the pin is pushed down as boost increases. So you can be quite methodical about that adjustment and make incremental changes knowing what you are doing. All these people who say they just rotated the pin dont know where it started and so may have decreased fuel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 If you put the old pin back in have a look at it first. There is likely a witness mark on the cone from the fueling pin in the hole. If so just line the mark up with the pin and pop it back in. Mine has two witness marks on, one is factory the other is fiddled. For the IVA I just returned it to the factory mark, it passed so worked for me. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 2 hours ago, miketomcat said: If you put the old pin back in have a look at it first. There is likely a witness mark on the cone from the fueling pin in the hole. If so just line the mark up with the pin and pop it back in. Mine has two witness marks on, one is factory the other is fiddled. For the IVA I just returned it to the factory mark, it passed so worked for me. Mike I saw this on a YouTube video. So I see witness marks, but I also see what looks like a chanel machined into it. What's going on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Light scoring from the pin that it impinges on is normal, but that heavy groove is not. It is not a machined groove - that is severe wear from a faulty pump; the small pin that runs a against it can get sticky and seize in the pump body. I had that happen and I had to remove the top of its casing to free it from the inside. A bit of lubrication would help, and I added some light grease for that after exercising the pin to get free movement. In my case, the small pin was stuck retracted, so off boost, not contacting the main pin. In this case, it looks like the small pin was able to extend easily, making contact with the main pin, but was being stiff when being forced to retract, wearing that groove with excessive contact pressure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Dont know what that is! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 Thanks chaps. Luckily I have a spare 200Tdi pump. I shall take a peep at that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Exactly what snagger said. I've used ATF to free off a seized pin and cone. I would suggest the deep scoring is probably the factory position and given your running slightly higher boost you could just go to the higher fueling side of the groove about ⅛ of a turn. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 Got it sorted. My spare pump had a standard pin with no massive groove. I fitted it, left the boost alone and didn't adjust the star wheel as it didn't seem to want to move so I didn't force it. The performance seems more than acceptable and the smoke is much reduced. Again I own massive thanks to the expertise on this forum. @reb78 I now see exactly what you mean about the performance boost pin in terms of tuning it would do nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Did you just refit the pin in line with the witness mark monkie ? Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 52 minutes ago, Mo Murphy said: Did you just refit the pin in line with the witness mark monkie ? Mo Yes, and previously backed off the off boost smoke adjustment. The spring seemed different to me too on the boost pin. Do you think I should attempt to screw the star wheel out too? EDIT: by different, I mean the spring on the performance boost pin compared to the standard pin from my spare pump (you can see the blue spring on the performance pin). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 If it isn't smoking and passes the mot I'd be inclined to go with it. Personally I've never seen the point in the boost pin, the standard one can be turned to make it smoke surely that's enough. Mike 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 41 minutes ago, miketomcat said: If it isn't smoking and passes the mot I'd be inclined to go with it. Personally I've never seen the point in the boost pin, the standard one can be turned to make it smoke surely that's enough. Mike @NRS91 can probable shed more light on it, but I think they're a different profile to a standard one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 Thank you all. I've taken it on a good test drive up and down hills and on the A303. It pulls magnificently well and is nice and smooth (most likely down to the Glen Coyne rubber mounts and a non rattly gearbox), I'm now just leaving a light haze of smoke behind me rather than a plume of black smoke. Having done some more reading on this, following the running in period I will get a bigger front mounted intercooler, rotate the boost pin and fit a boost ring to improve things a bit more off standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 1 hour ago, monkie said: Thank you all. I've taken it on a good test drive up and down hills and on the A303. It pulls magnificently well and is nice and smooth (most likely down to the Glen Coyne rubber mounts and a non rattly gearbox), I'm now just leaving a light haze of smoke behind me rather than a plume of black smoke. Having done some more reading on this, following the running in period I will get a bigger front mounted intercooler, rotate the boost pin and fit a boost ring to improve things a bit more off standard. Have a chat with Nick @NRS91. He can talk you through what the bits do and his stuff is great quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 I did a search for "tdi boost ring" and came across a conversation involving him plus a link to his shop. I will be sure to check it out. I just want my engine to have had a good running in period and for me to get used to what is normal for it (EGT, boost etc) on my gauges before I start playing with it. On the subject of gauges, I fitted a new waxstat 88 degree thermostat. I've noticed that my coolant temp climbs to almost 100 degrees before I notice the start opens and the temperature settles down to around 90 degrees. I even took it out and did the test in a pan of water on my stove. It does seem to open okay starting at about 90 degrees. Is this normal? My 19J would never get to those temps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 Temp sounds Ok to me, don't forget its a pressurised system so 100 degree is not the boiling point, thats higher in a pressurised system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 1 hour ago, western said: Temp sounds Ok to me, don't forget its a pressurised system so 100 degree is not the boiling point, thats higher in a pressurised system. Indeed, it just seems weird how the temperature goes up, heads to 100 then drops as the thermostat opens. It looked a lot smoother on the same gauge on the 19J (I think that stat opened at a cooler temp IIRC) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 There are two types of 'Boost Pin ' on the market. Cheap and quality. Steg's supplies do the quality bit. Essentially the idea behind the boost pin is a hug increase in fuel on demand - so lots of coal being rolled and a bit of a power increase on a tired, poorly maintained lump. The big difference between Steg's pin (aside from quality) is that he explains how to properly tune the pin... But we can't knock the need, by some, to make more than a modest living. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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