Electric conversion prices coming down?

[martyn668]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/drop-kit-easily-convert-classic-110802708.html

I've heard prices of £70k before (fully fitted), and this kit (DIY?) doesn't seem as powerful, or have the range, but it is a good start. Hoefully we'll have more manufacturers soon, and more choice for those that want to go down this route. I'm interested, but probably in 5 or 10 years' time, when technology and the infrastructure has advanced more, and/or my current diseasal lump has died. Until then, black, oily stuff.

 

[Bowie69]

70K is more the custom conversion end of things, think Electric Classic Cars and the like.

Still, 24K buys a lot of petrol, though not as much as it used to.

[daveturnbull]

There seems to be so much hate for EV's in the car enthusiast world, but until hydrogen gets some money spent on it, they are the future. And lets face it, for most of us the range / recharge really isn't an issue given how far we drive and how long it sits in the garage.

[FridgeFreezer]

1 hour ago, daveturnbull said:

There seems to be so much hate for EV's in the car enthusiast world, but until hydrogen gets some money spent on it, they are the future. And lets face it, for most of us the range / recharge really isn't an issue given how far we drive and how long it sits in the garage.

Very true - although 24k of petrol would keep my V8's going for at least a decade with the amount of use they get, and the limited range / long charging time of those conversions would really mess up my holidays.

I'm still hopeful that the next 5 years or so will see some useful breakthroughs in batteries that make EV's and conversions more practical. Electric motors are a fantastic way to power a car, it's just a shame you need tons of battery to make the package practical.

[jeremy996]

That level of power sounds like a Hyper 9; I looked at that seriously for my Morgan, see the EV thread.

The more expensive route used by Twisted was developed specially for Defenders and Electric Classic Cars uses ex Tesla motors, mix and match batteries. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by jeremy996
Cross reference to EV conversion thread

[Snagger]

24k is the target price.  Actual price could be a fair bit more.

The performance figures quoted make me think that they are using Nissan Leaf motors and major electrical components with a few custom electronics.  I wouldn’t be surprised if that kit is without the battery, too.  It’ll be interesting to see - a Leaf system gives performance akin to a tuned Tdi, by numerous accounts, so works well.

[mad_pete]

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/defender/358240/electrogenic-unveils-all-electric-conversion-kit-land-rover-defender

[Snagger]

I can’t get the videos working.  Is it Leaf or Hyper9 motors?  It would be interesting to watch, but wants phone numbers to do so…

[Nonimouse]

21 minutes ago, Snagger said:

performance akin to a tuned Tdi, by numerous accounts, so works well.

Considerable drop in torque - which is interesting and not expected

[Snagger]

1 minute ago, Nonimouse said:

Considerable drop in torque - which is interesting and not expected

Don’t forget that electric motors have maximum torque at 0- very high rpm and you don’t need to worry about peak torque like ICE.  That makes the ICE figures a little misleading and results in better performance of EVs with slightly lower torque values.

[Nonimouse]

3 minutes ago, Snagger said:

Don’t forget that electric motors have maximum torque at 0- very high rpm and you don’t need to worry about peak torque like ICE.  That makes the ICE figures a little misleading and results in better performance of EVs with slightly lower torque values.

Yup. Aware that peak torque is instant, but peak torque with a TDi is at 1800-2000rpm. so very useful. And can easily and cheaply be taken up to 250ft/lb, from 195ft/lb.  Couple this to the slow charge, low range and huge outlay - it's a no brainer. Stick with biodiesel.  Unless you are a farm and use the vehicle twice a day to get the cows in, and need to offset the conversion against tax

[sean f]

Not going to claim any knowledge of EV systems but my immediate thought is if you lift the power system out of a relatively small car like the leaf and put it in a much bigger and heavier car like a LR there must be some serious compromises to performance. The right gearing can obviously get it moving but I would assume this would be at the cost of range, higher speed, motor life??.

At the moment I still don't think EV systems are there yet for serious use by most people, big premiums in price which those in the know seem to suggest would take 8-9years to get back compared to conventional technology, charging infrastructure growing but still not there and limitations in range particularly if towing or loading a vehicle up. They are improving though and I would expect as the technology becomes more main stream and upsizes it will become cheaper, battery technology is improving rapidly, just look at what a mobile phone does now compared to 5 years ago. Maybe in a few years but not for me yet. Current fuel prices are a political anomaly mostly to do with refining capacity which is likely to resolve in time (might be an out break in peace which seems unlikely or the western world will build more refining capacity).

[Bowie69]

12 minutes ago, sean f said:

Current fuel prices are a political anomaly mostly to do with refining capacity

That and the fact the pound has tanked against the dollar..... and oil is traded in dollars.

[FridgeFreezer]

2 hours ago, sean f said:

Not going to claim any knowledge of EV systems but my immediate thought is if you lift the power system out of a relatively small car like the leaf and put it in a much bigger and heavier car like a LR there must be some serious compromises to performance. The right gearing can obviously get it moving but I would assume this would be at the cost of range, higher speed, motor life??.

Same as any power plant really - pushing a 2-ton brick around is less efficient, less nippy, and harder on components than pushing a Mini around.

A 110hp TDi in a landy is slow, 110hp in a smart car is a nippy thing.

[Snagger]

Aren’t Tdis 111bhp as standard?  Not fast, but certainly adequate for most people.

[Bowie69]

Compared to anything made in the last two decades, it is slow.

Even the most run of the mill family wagons will do 0-60 in sub 10-12 seconds and on to well over 100mph.

[Snagger]

3 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

Compared to anything made in the last two decades, it is slow.

Even the most run of the mill family wagons will do 0-60 in sub 10-12 seconds and on to well over 100mph.

Yes, but it should be fine for a Defender or Discovery 1 where the owner was content with the standard performance.  With the higher torque over the full rpm band, performance should be a fair bit better than with the original engine.  The issues of range and recharge time remain the biggest to deal with in service.

[Snagger]

Interesting video on hydrogen storage: https://youtu.be/M0fnEsz4Ks0

[FridgeFreezer]

On 6/25/2022 at 4:47 PM, Snagger said:

Aren’t Tdis 111bhp as standard?  Not fast, but certainly adequate for most people.

Apologies for missing the extra 1hp off there, didn't mean to offend any TDi owners

[simonr]

Based on my current conversion, it will cost about £6k + Batteries, based on a Hyper9.

I've had good experience buying used LiFePO4 cells, costing around £100 per kWh.  New cells at the moment are around £150 per kWh

I think a Hyper9 might be a little under-powered in a Defender (I've got one to fit to a Polaris General, 600kg) - but that said, I know people who've used them & think they're good in a Defender!

Experiences vary a lot, but people seem to be getting around 2 miles range per kWh in a Land Rover - so for 100mile range, it will cost about £13,500.  I agree, that's still a lot of fuel.  If you have access to Bio & can use it - that's a better solution.  However, it's still cheaper than buying a new EV.

Having owned (and built) one EV, I really want another one!  It was a very different driving and learning experience.  They don't suit everybody - but I like them!

[FridgeFreezer]

I guess for a lot of folks any time there's a big lump-sum for a conversion it makes the alternative of just carrying on buying fuel the only viable option. People can do a TDi swap for a grand or less and save a few MPG over 5-10 years, but finding 10k up-front even for super cheap running costs is a lot harder, just like finding 30k+ for a new EV is beyond many.

I do find myself wondering how much fuel you'd save with a very mild hybrid approach in a Land Rover - shove a bit of torque into the PTO hole for setting off / high load to knock the high demand peaks off the ICE engine and regen when braking, small & cheap battery pack & motor & controls... 🤔 after all, motors are most efficient when they're cruising along and burn most fuel during pulling away / acceleration.

[Snagger]

16 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Apologies for missing the extra 1hp off there, didn't mean to offend any TDi owners

It’s 2bhp more than the Defender 200Tdi!😉
 

There is progress all the time on batteries.  Some pays off, much doesn’t, but bit by bit they are getting better.  This is interesting: https://youtu.be/5kj83ouhXTo

[FridgeFreezer]

2 hours ago, Snagger said:

It’s 2bhp more than the Defender 200Tdi!😉

My lord, are we sure people can be trusted with such extreme power?

[Bowie69]

And a whole 80BHP less than a not-even-breathed-on 3.9 V8  

[geoffbeaumont]

9 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

And a whole 80BHP less than a not-even-breathed-on 3.9 V8  

Ah, but the V8 owners obsess over every last mpg instead...