will_warne Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Yep, finally, I finished putting the auto in my 90 earlier this week. It was a little emotional (it took about 120 hours in total) and it caused a fair bit of head scratching at times but it was deffinatly worth it. I'll try and sort some photos tomorrow but for the moment I thought I'd give you a write up of what i did. The first stage of the job was fitting a few more gauges: an tachometer, an EGT and a boost gauge so I could keep an eye on things when I've tuned the engine (coming soon). This was fairly straight forward appart from the lack of an EGR blanking plate on the manifold on the TGV engine meaning I had to drill the manifold. I chose to do this on the rear branch just before it joined the centre branches as it was easy to get to and should give a fairly accurate reading. However, this meant I had to re-profile the web on the manifold so the jubilee clip fitted properly. It wasn't difficult but it just took some time.... The gauge I actually used was from here. Its nicely made and was a good price. It's also avalable as a 52mm round gauge so its easy to fit into a LR dash. then came the autobox fit itself. I thought that would be fairly straightforward but it threw up a few suprises. I knew I'd have to rebuild the gearbox cross member which I destroyed at Bampton but I was not expecting to have to take off the extra deep sump to get the auto backplate on (to add insult to injury I'd only done an oil change a couple of miles before I started the conversion) and then muck about with the exhaust again. As it is I'm going to have to make up a new downpipe as the M&D one passis within millimetres of the auto selector.... The one job I was expecting was redrilling the mounts to take the rubbers 15mm further forward. This isn't neccesary on an HP22 spec box (the standard) but the HP24 spec box I had built by Ashcrofts has a 15mm longer oil pump (this caused more problems later). The HP24 spec build up is a lot more expensive than the standard one (about twice the price) but its well worth it as the HP22 is only designed to take 280lb/ft and I've already got that sort of figure before I set about tuning the engine. The build I I chose is also well prooven; amoungst others Jez (aka Dolly the lightweight) had a very simerlar spec box in his yellow thing and it took a fair amount of punishment without suffering any ill effects. Next the transfer box went in. I decided to change to a 1.66 box as the auto has a slightly higher top gear and the truck was overgeared with the manual. The transfer box saw a fair bit of attention too, though; it had a strip down with new seals all round and a few new bearings. I also replaced the split cross shaft in the centre diff (the weak link on an LT230) with a solid one from Ashcrofts (KAM also do one). I also took the opertunity to fit one of Simon Rafferty's X-Eng disk hand brake conversions (absolutely superb bit of kit). That went on without any problems although I couldn't do a straight swap for a 200tdi hand brake cable as I'd expected: my seat box was of a differant design. I'll try and remeber to get a photo as its a bit complicated to explain what we did (had to bastardise the old cable to get a rubber insert). The next headache was then propshafts. I was hoping to reuse my old propshafts with a spacer on the front and then winging it on the back. The front worked fine (thanks to Tonks for the 15mm spacer) but the rear wasn't going to play ball. I was hoping that because I'd raised the vehicle I'd get away with the rear output flange moving 15mm further back but as soon as the box was in place it was obvious I couldn't even fit the old propshaft, let alone having any sort of compression on it. After a bit of a hunt arround I discovered a 200tdi Defender front prop would fit although I'd be risking it a bit when pushing the articulation. I managed to find an OK 200tdi defender front prop to make do and ordered a custom one from the propshaft clinic as I knew I'd have to do it eventually. They're a company I'd strongly reccomend; very good prices and a superb, quick service. The next job was sorting the shifter and the centre console. I decided to go for a NAS spec console as they're nicely finished and give you plenty of space to mount locker switches and winch controls. Its a bit of a fiddley job to do as theres a bit of trimming to fit but it was fairly straightforward. The wiring, however, was interesting. When I took the fuse holder out I discovered some rather shocking (literally) wiring that a previous owner must have been responsible for so that had to be tidied up. I'm just amazed I hadn't had any serious electrical fires, only a small smoke episode with the cigarette lighter (I should've look closer at the wiring then....). Oh, and the ARB compressor needed moving to behind the driver's seat as there was no room for it in its original position (behind the cubby box). The last part of the job was the oil cooler. I opted for a Mocal Laminova cooler. Its not the cheapest or easiest to fit but it is tough and won't block up (its water to oil). First of all there was the problem of where to fit it. Anyone who's looked under the bonnet of my truck knows its a little busy in there and trying to find somewhere to mount the cooler which had acess from all 4 directions for the water and oil pipes was a problem. After some thought it ended up mounted in the offside front wing. The oil pipes were then made up (proper aerospace spec ones to stop any problems) and we then tapped into the coolent returning from the heater matrix (cooler) to cool the oil. That was pretty much the job in a nutshell. I was worried all through the conversion the truck would be horrible with an autobox. Its not, its truely awesome. On road its a bit slushey but the 2.8 suits the autobox very well. The gearings also spot on with 35" tyres (75mph is 3000 rpm) and I think I'll just about get away with using the BFG 255x85s. I've not used it propperly off road yet although I've done a couple of lanes and I can already tell its going to work a lot better than the manual did. If there's anyone out there wanting to do a TDi auto conversion I'd strongly reccomend it. However, it'll cost 2-3 times what you expect, take at least twice as long and its a rear mission to find all the parts you want. I'd also VERY strongly reccomend you fit a VGT turbo. M&D do a kit and its not horribly expensive but a good mate of mine who's driven a few 300s converted to auto commented how nicely the 2.8 went with the autobox and how well it pulled without any turbo lag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Nice one Will - something I'm still very interested in but don't have the funds to push the project along on mine. Good writeup too, plenty of detail to go at. Let us know how the thing develops as you get used to driving it, interesting points it throws up etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted October 9, 2005 Author Share Posted October 9, 2005 No problem TC. The only real issue I've had so far is a couple of oil leaks (mainly due to me having to use the vehicle without any propper test or shakedown). Considering the size of the job I'm pretty pleased so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Sounds good Will, will you be bringing it to Minstead next weekend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Sounds very interesting but : Pull yer finger out chap Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Nice one Will Thought you'd been quiet. Hard work, but worth it eh ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Will, What was the HP22 and HP24 fitted to? i assume that the HP22 was the "standard" 3.9 V8 and 300Tdi disco box? or was the HP24 not fitted to any production rovers? good write up though... looking forward to piccies. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 The HP24 was fitted to P38 Range Rover and Discovery II V8's. Well done Will, looking forward to pics. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted October 10, 2005 Author Share Posted October 10, 2005 AM, yep, VERY hard work but I think it'll deffinatly be worth it. Ok, I'll go and upload some pics in a minute. I've only got the early ones at the moment, I need to take some of everything finished. As far as the specs of the boxes go, AFAIK the HP24 (in hydralic valvebody form) was never fitted to a production Land Rover, they were all HP22 although the box fitted to a 4.2 RRC was somewhere between an HP22 and an HP24. The HP24 in electronic form was fitted to 4.6 P38s and 4.6l NAS spec discos, all the others had HP22s. My gearbox started life as a standard 300tdi disco HP22 (serial number 744). I managed to source one from Rob Hybrid which meant I saved a few £££ on the core charge (£500 from Ashcrofts ) Piccys to follow shortly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 was somewhere between an HP22 and an HP24. That'll be an HP 23 then!! Coat? it's on... ahhh, there's the door! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted October 10, 2005 Author Share Posted October 10, 2005 Ok, here's a couple of photos to get started. I managed to source a good 1.66 LT230 from Trev (aka LR90). The first job on the list was to fit the solid cross shaft. Here's the t.box in peices on the bench. Just something I'd do if you do this to an older box is replace all 6 bolts that hold the high/low selector housing in place as 2 of them sheared and the rest looked pretty bad when I stripped the box. I also replaced the bearing at the front of the centre diff as it meant I could accuratly torque the bolts holding both halves of the diff together plus it showed some signs of wear. Here's a closer look at the centre diff in 2 peices. The rear half remains in the main part of the transfer box connected to the gearset. You can now see why this is a bit of a weak link and also that the cross shafts aren't in amazing condtion although far from being totally dead. And here's the new one. IIRC Ashcrofts modify the crossshat from the diff centre of a 4 pin P38 axle. What was a bonus is that the diff also now only has a couple of degrees play. Its about a million times better than the 20 odd I had on the old one After this part of the job I changed both output seals and drive flanges (they had deep grooves in them) as well as fitting a cross drilled input gear. As Tony's seen its a good idea to change the bearing races at the same time to suit the new bearings. This is easy on the bench as the front race can be drifted out through the hole for the output shaft. The last part of the job was to fit the X-eng handbrake. the instructions for this are superb. I can see I'm going to have to change things a little (probably I'll have the cable operating upwards with the securing bracket on the other bolt) when I fit an underdrive but, at worst, I think I may have to rotate the caliper a little which is no big deal. Next came the gearbox crossmember. This is how it looked after Bampton: This is after 6 hours of work: Basicly the 50 x 90 box was replaced with 2 sections of 50 x 50 box to form a honeycomb. At the front bottom face I also welded a length od 50 x 50 x 8 angle to try and stop the box colapsing on impact. I then also constructed an angled plate on the front of the 'angle iron' to try and throw the vehicle over obsticles. This was constructed from 50mm and 30mm strip (again 8mm thickness). Everything was then seam welded and the ends of the angled plate were plug welded. I don't think it'll bend now More to follow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Nice work Will. Interesting looking rims you have there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Will any pics of the bonnet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted October 10, 2005 Author Share Posted October 10, 2005 I'll be able to get some tomorrow or Wednesday, Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Looking forward to the pics Will, sounds like you've done a pukka job Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 heres the rude question then, whats price of one those handbrake things then????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelf Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 www.x-eng.co.uk £175.00 i fitted one about 8 months ago and its worth every penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonPearson Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 >> when I've tuned the engine (coming soon). This would be the V8-eating, super-tastic 2.8 TGV then would it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted October 11, 2005 Author Share Posted October 11, 2005 >> when I've tuned the engine (coming soon). This would be the V8-eating, super-tastic 2.8 TGV then would it? I hope so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Maybe with one less pedal to worry about Will will be able to drive properly and make use of all that power Tin hat on and heading for the door Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 Maybe with one less pedal to worry about Will will be able to drive properly and make use of all that power Tin hat on and heading for the door How did I know you'd be the one to say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 Ok, here's the last of the photos: First, here's the oil cooler. It was difficult to find a home for it as you need access on both sides (oil lines) and at both ends (water lines). The only mod I had to do to fit the cooler under the wind was to space the header tank out slightly to clear one of the oil lines. The brackets were made from angle section Aluminium extrusion. It the bolted to the wing top and was attached to the cooler using the bolts that attach the end plates of the cooler. With the radiator cooling both the engine and gearbox now and the fact I need a new one, I decided to get Allisport to build me a radiator using the intercooler core. They've only done a couple and none in this size (appart from mine) but it works very well. I decided to go for one of these on the reccomendation of someone else who's got one. So far it seems to work plus it meant I could run a standard sized intercooler (giving quicker response than a large one) and meaning I can push the winch back further. On the subject of intercoolers I fitted an Alisport one at the same time as the rad to help keep the gas temperatures down. This should help significanty when I come to tune the engine. You can see the EGT probe here. It was fairly easy to drill; I just used a greased drill bit. It takes a little while but there's no point rushing it. You can see where I had to reprofle the web on the manifold so the jubilee clip fitted properly. Also to keep the under bonnet temperature down I decided to drill some holes in the bonnet. Initially I thought about doing them in the centre of the bonnet (a la Red Ibex) to keep keep them discreet. However, that wasn't an option really with all the bracing under the bonnet. Instread I drilled 3 2" holes on each side of the bonnet. IIRC they are 40mm from the bottom edge of the bonnet, the rear one is 100mm from the rear edge of the bonnet and then 75mm between centres after that. You also need to trim some of the baicing as the rear hole is so far back. You won't loose much strength and the holes just seem to look better that far back. They've made a significant differance to the under bonnet temperature as there was really no where for the air to go before I drilled the holes. One other thing to think about is removing the bonnet liner first, this also helps keep temperatures down. Inside I chose a NAS spec centre console, it gives lots of space to mount switches and looks smart (or dos when the inside's clean ). I also chose a front push button shifter rather than a side opperating one for the moment (I'm planning to fit someting slightly differant soon). You can fit the side push shifter to the more common front push shifter. The only thing you need to do is turn down the inner shaft in the selector mechanism. Personally I prefer the front opperating one. With the extra guages I needed somewhere else to mount them. The tacho went into the main pannel and then all the EGT, water temp and boost gauge went into the centre of the dash. Eventually I'll fit an 02 spec dash and do something simerlar to Si White in on the centre pannel. I'll then also fit an engine oil temp gauge, engine oil pressure gauge and a transmission oil temp gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Nice work Will. Dare I ask how much the center console is, PM me if you want, I'm just thinking about how to bodge mine at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Mark, the quote I had from Ashcrofts was 275 +Vat Cheers for the pics Will. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 good thread Will - can't wait to see it in action any news on the CSW event for the 30 Oct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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