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** MegaSquirting a V8 - "Basics of How to" ... The A-Z Saga

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Hey Ho :(

Another day spent on the 90 doing "Devils Knitting" wiring :(

I must admit to having just a few "Quarms", when having dragged the 90 out of the garage I peered in to see this :

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This is the mass of wiring that had ended up in the Passenger and drivers footwell areas as I 2poked through wires from the engine bay. I had always worked out (and had been given advice) to do the loom in "Stages" and as such thats what I am doing.

I have now all the wires (I THINK) in the engine bay.

These are the 8 injectors, CTS, MAT, Coils 1 and 2, PWN (extra Air Valve 2 wire vs RR 4 wire - note 1st mistake when I sussed I had 1 colour and 1 black, and found that its a pulsed earth, so should be a colour and colour - luckliy I sussed this and with confirmation from BBC - Ta Ian - I changed the balck for a green and white 1st thing today). VR sensor, and Throttle Pos Sensor.

This made for a fair number of wires, these have as outlined above been positioned (with extar off cut lengths) in the correct places and a combo of tape and Zippy ties holds them in place.

I have decided to definately take the advice of not "Taping" up the loom until it runs, as many have said you'll find the odd wire that needs moving repositioning - or even adding - ie the one you "Forgot".

So, having sort of temp finished the engine bay, next was to sort out the Cab area.

I decided to do this simply.

Before adding any more wires I worked out that all the wires in the cab area either go to : ECU EDIS or one of the 2 replays.

The EDIS8 is fitted (seatbox near cubby) and the relays fitted )in the cubby) and the ECU Bulkhead rear area, so it seemed sensible to then "move the wires and group into where they are to end up ?

All the wires are taped up and marked, so some had to be "Split" and then linked together - ie ALL the feeds to the injectors (8 wires) all the injectors LHS and RHS another 8 wires, the feeds go to the realy, the injectors pulses to the ECU.

One by one I'd move wires about, retaped where I needed to and then slowly things started to look better.

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There are then a number of extra wires needed, exc for the moment the Fuel Pump and Lamda sensors ie :

Power from the fuse box to the Fuel and Main relays (Big Browns) and Several Blue / Yellow, Slate and Orange, Pink from the ECU to the EDIs, and a few others, bit by bit I added these in, rezippy tieing and taping as I went. As I now have several "End Sections) ie Fuse box EDIS ECU RELAYS GROUNDS etc things get a little easier as I place into each area each of the additional wires, the bunble grows and it now looks more like a harness and not an explosion at a knitting factory :(

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At this point I then worked through the diagram working out where each wire was, checking it started / ends correct place(s) and that its the right colours etc. At this point I also discovered that the advice I was given re not taping up was spot on - I have missed the Ignition Switched live completely out of my thoughts - to the point where I haven't even the wire in the right colour for it - never ordered it, also a earth from the Main relay and a extar wire from relay to ECU. Then there is still the Fuel pump and Lamda to wire in, but all in all thats about as far as I can get this weekend without some more bits, there is however loads more I can do tommorrow related to the MS Conversion :lol:

All in all I am useless at electrics, but for this bit taking your time and working slowly and methodically if I can do it anyone can.....more to come ....much more :(

Nige

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I think using the spare/long wire as seat belts may fall foul of the MOT man :)

Great write up, Im taking notes as mine is getting there!

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Nige if you find yourself short of a bit of wire of a particular colour, just shout as I have been known to have the odd offcut knocking about :lol:

Also may be ordering from VWP next week so if you need anything let me know, it'll save P&P.

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Having taken pity on a mate on sunday am welding up his bulkhead I lost the morning :(

But

Couple of things done to move it forward.

Chnaging the Low Pressure Fuel pump to High pressure. I have a 90 with the in tank pump, this measures around 13 inches long, the RR pump is shorter over all, but as you can see from the pic the actual Pump unit is longer on the EFI vs the Carb pump. To convert take the top part of the 90s LP pump, and then connect to the range rover bottom end with the assemble that is left, the 90 has ring terminals to the pump, the RR has spade, simple nuts bolts and then back in converted from LP to HP and the right length :)

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Also finished off the tubework to allow the dumping of the flappers AFM, this tube is around 90mm OD and has the Manifold Air Temp sensor mounted in it, plus an extra bolt helping hold it all in place when things get jiggy :).

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More hours in this bit of fabwork than there should be - but thats the way fabrication goes sometimes :lol:

The heater pipes also have to be joined up to the RR3.9 stylee pipes on top of the Driver rocker cover - thats going to be fun too :angry: ...........maybe next weekend now, have to go shopping for some more bits,.............

Nige

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Hmmmm

Things beginning to fight me now :(

Had the delivery from VWP, so was able to add the missing wires to the harness, between the rain storms :lol:,

normally these started just as I got the 90 out,

then finished shortly after I got it back into the workshop :(

Anyway, the harness has had all the mass of zippy ties removed and each "Core Bundle" now has 1 zippy tie for the bundle, This took some time, but the Lamda (3 wires) Fuel Pump(2 wires) and the swiched ignition are now added, the loom is looking much bigger but I really think now it is 100% complete wire wise, but until it runs I am not taping it up - as per advice from many who have done this before :lol:

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Next on the list is to join up the 2 Heater pipes a la 1986 V8 90

with the 3.9 RR on the driver rocker, ....and yes they were a piggy to do.

The RR pipes are 20mm OD the heater pipes 16mm OD.

Much head scrtaching and messing about with a huge box of hoses of various shapes and IDs got me erm nowhere.

The plan moved forward when I found some hoses to get me from 20mm to 16mm (old hybrid 2nd rad hoses :) )

and then I twigged copper rad (House) Tube is 15mm OD.

If you add a "Coupler" this then goes to 16mm :) and has to boot a extra ridge for the pipe hose clip to bite around,

much better than just shoving a hose clip doing up and praying all will be ok.

Much grumbling and bending of copper pipe saw me later today with 2x pipes going from Driver rocker down from 20mm to 16mm, into Copper pipe, round back of V8 up and then joined with 2x siutable hoses I did have allowing the engine to "Flex" enough.

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With a bracket clamp (to be finished) these will be held tight in place at rear passenger rocker area,

and with a gas welder and some copper brazing rods (stronger than solder) the ends put on - cept I didn't have enough ends - so will add more to shopping list :)

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Also need some grommets with BIG OD and small ID and a few more bits .....which I now know I need,

which I didn't earlier today, .....means I have ground a tad to a halt - ........again :(

Hey ho

Nige

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WTF ???????????????? :lol:

As my father used to say to me when I was much younger “ I would suggest you go and measure that again” ……….. knowing that the old bar steward had just been and measured it to 3 decimal places. :rolleyes:

OK, before we talk in English, we will get the mainland EU language bit out of the way…. <_<

The 90 heater is 20mm ………….. the barbs are 21mm (actually 21 and a little bit)

The 3.9RR heater pipes ……… known as the external pipes ……. As opposed the valley pipes of the 3.5 …….. which are both a different size ……….. again……...the 3.9RR heater pipes………… are 19mm OD (18.92) with barbs that take them out to 21mm.

You may well have something different, but I am fairly sure they all have the same part number (there is only one sort of front hose for those)

Now we talk in English ………….. go and get some ¾ heater hose and it will fit both ends ……….. just slightly tight on the heater and pretty much perfect on the steel heater pipes ………… ;)

BTW: The inside ID of the 3.9 pies is slightly over 15mm ............... those 15mm pipes would actually slide inside the the steel pipes ............ then you could have silver soldered them.... :rolleyes:

Also I have your T piece here ........... I will post it during the week

:)

Ian

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Erm ?

Scibble wibble witch wibble wah wah woo whooo :)

...........I'll ring you tommorow :lol:

Nige

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This really is the way to go Nige - an ECU which is fully maintainable, tunable & several times more reliable that Luc-arse.

Did you consider putting a connector inline for all of the injectors & sensors. This way the plenum/manifold can be taken away easily if required for maintenance. (see my thread in members vehicles. ( I'm using a 28way Burndy connector)

We (the MS clan) really ought to pool our data on VE & Ignition maps. I still havent got an ignition map i'm really sure of. (VE is easy if you have WB O2 sensor for autotuning)

p.s can you come & plumb my bathroon for me? :ph34r:

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Arrgh !

Not the best of weekends in 'moving it forward'.

Some of the bits I bought (Grommets) not suitable (more later when I have what I need :( )

Saturday amongst the massive rain storms saw me filling up an 8 Yard skip all day at home with junk and Cr*p I promised SWMBO I would shift all around the house / Garden / garage, all sorts of stuff from work we have done and finished and had left over plus a LOAD of garden rubbish :( .........saw me knackered.

Today ........at a later than planned start ..........due to getting a mates engine to run after he pulled the dizzy and couldn't get his daily driver working .............Hey Ho, Finally got in the garage.

From the stainless 15mm OD Tubing from Nigel T (ta matey) I remade the heater pipes in loverley CDS Stainless 316 with various ends, the one end is a whizzy bling stainless affair with ribs (Oooer) so as to give the hoses "Ridges" to stay on under pressure, then with the bends in place I had "Fun" Gluing the SS316 to the other end - Copper fitment :lol: but they are well and truly soldered on :)

PITA to do, but finally they are on and I'm happy with both the bends and fitment

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With some 5/8" hose clips and a bit of brackety holding the top pipe to the fuel rail and then the bottom pipe to the bracket the heater and the engine are finally once again connected up ....and will take the abuse that the copper tube worried me might well not.

Some final electric wire tweaking and tidying and drilling and tapping a breather into the back of the Passnger side rocker cover a la Hotwire Stylee (although this will have a tube running into the cab and then onto the foam filter rather than the std affair which is like a 1" mushroom dome filter on top of the rocker about 1" High - not good for wading :lol: - was all I then managed to do.

Next weekend I am planning it to run, with some luck and help :) ........

...............Maybe :lol:

Nige

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Right update :(

Wiring Uuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrggggh :lol:

Last couple of evenings I have been in the workshop getting the harness more ready for the weekends fun of seeing if it will run :o:ph34r: The harness in the engine bay is next on the agenda, need to fit the 8x injector plugs (AMP Ones) TPS, CTS, MAT, EAV Coil Pack 1 and Coil Pack 2, etc. To do this I have taken a fairly safe (I hope) Gamble that all the wires I need are in there at least, and that any missing / errors are in the cab and up and in the ECU EDIS RELAYS Fuse feeds areas :ph34r::unsure:

There are a selection of new plugs waiting to go on.

These have been looked at hard and I have bought these as a compromise to Price / qulaity / waterproofness / spares availability ..........and as I know nothing better as an electrical idiot these won :

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New Ford Coil Plugs, Complete with New terminals and rubber waterproof seals etc, original equipement, bought from Webcon about £22 the set of 2.

I also have to have a plug for the TPS (the RR / LR Original is dreadfull 3 pin white plug which both cracks and causes loads of problems) which needed to be both waterproof and small / compact for small wire, a 2 way plug for the HP Fuel Pump (needs to carry 10 amps Plus), and the heated Lamda Sensor 3 way wires plug.(10 amps plus)

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These are all from 'Polevolt' - very helpfull, go to www.polevolt.co.uk

From Top to Bottom

3 way Waterproof Plug with plugs for ends and terminals - 20 amps capacity (Heated Lamda Sensor)

Special Waterpoof 3 way Plugs and parts for fine wires (suitable for TPS etc) 8 amp capacity

2 Way Waterproof Plug with bits - 20 amps capacity (Fuel Pump)

On now to the loom.

As such my plans are to do the best job I can with this loom, with not much electrical skill,

I am fortunate that FF and John W are helping, JW late this week popping injector terminal on etc etc, and FF at the weekend.

I started by taping with harness tape (non Sticky PVC Tape) from the back of the block, just before the V of the wiring splits going into left and right hand banks. I have taped each side seperately, using red PVC tape as a guide where the various "Plugs of wires" come out of the harness.

Having done this I have a harness which is taped up and has the wires popping out where needed.

Next was to beef this up a tad and give each of the wires sticking out a bit of indepenadnat strength and decent finish out of the junction. When all is finished I will have extar protection via some spiral rap to finish, but thats far away yet...

1st I used decent Quality heatshrink, this was pushed into the harness joint, then heatshrunk, a larger finishing piece was then added over both the main harness and the joint.

Even sader is I have had some labels done for me with all the items permenant ink printed onto 5:1 heat shrink so I have a set of "Inj 1" through to 8, TPS, MAT, CTS, EAV, Coil 1 Coil 2 etc etc etc,

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Once cut these were then placed over the heatshrunk heatshrink, and heated so they fitted neatly on top,

then (I can do Bling too eh BBC :lol: ?) some clear heatshrink was placed over the top to protect.

This way I have at each wire coming out of the harness a clear printed protected identifier (well they are in real life - the digital camera may not pick it up clearly :P ). When the plugs are fitted to the wires they will also have rubber (ooer) boots which will cover the heatshrunk ends of the cables, the plugs and boots thus give about a decent protect and waterproofness as you can get for sensible money

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More this weekend :) but light at the end of the tunnel - at at the mo "No" not an electrical short :P

Nige

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You have done a good job buy all accounts you deserve to be sat there feeling pretty smug an chuffed with yourself, seriously well done looks really professionally done

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awaiting the next installment

Prob tommorrow, just got in - absolutely worn out, been in the garage on it 8.00am - to 10.20pm saturday and sunday, John White helped friday and Part Saturday, John U / Fridge been up with me working his magic most of saturday / Sunday.

It does run, and quite nicely too, been out for an initial 1st 'test drive' (John U may say 1st "NASA Launch" more than 'drive' - it do go 'quite well' :) ), but nearly there, ...........slight prob ..............yet to overcome

More tommorow.............

Beer and Bed shortly :lol:

Nige

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I would like to clarify the slight problem seems to be very much a LR/Lucas "design" feature than a problem with the new wiring :rolleyes:

And yes I'd say it goes rather well, the datalogging feature of MegaTune came in handy as it was hard to keep focused on the laptop when being launched towards the horion under heavy acceleration testing :lol:

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John White helped friday and Part Saturday,

Part Saturday???? i got told to p*ss off if all i was going to do was stand there and take the p*ss!!!!!!

Still - got to beat JU's truck with a large hammer which was rather satisfying.......(yes really!)

Jon

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Part Saturday???? i got told to p*ss off if all i was going to do was stand there and take the p*ss!!!!!!

Still - got to beat JU's truck with a large hammer which was rather satisfying.......(yes really!)

Jon

Hmmmm

All true :)

The only time he wasn't taking the P was when we gave him a big hammer, a lump of Fridges LR and my anvil to play with :lol:

Nige

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Righty Ho then - small update

Basically last weekend was spent (and Friday Night) "wiring things", whilst this may seem no big deal to many to me its moving well twards my worst nightmare - I don't like wiring - I don't really understand wiring - so when I do it I have to pay special attention to not screw it up to what I am doing.

As such a Friday night from 6.00 to 9.30PM, and then a saturday and sunday 8.00am to 10.30pm means my brain was well a truly scrambled. But a huge amount was achived, and as I said if I can do it so can you. OK I had some help from Jon White (Crimpmaster Guru) and Fridge (Megasquirt Guru), and this has svaed me a fortune on redoing things (crimped badly etc) and to both of them and Ian G (BBC) I am very very gratefull.

I was trying to ensure that I had done as much as I could for them when they turned up, so for JW the engine bay was ready to crimp when he turned up, amazingly 8x injectors, coils and TPS along with MAT and other bits took JW near 3 hours to do, but nice they are :

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The extar Heat shrink is for when the loom is taken back ioff when everything is finished and taped up, this heatshrink is glue linned and will "Seal" the joins and joints. Then there was the TPS - the std RR one is dreadfull, this is a IP67 waterprrof plug and socket 3 way, as oper previous post. The wires are crimped on, the little seals being pulled up higher onto the wire, then the wires crimped are pushed into the housuings, then the seals pushed down and seal around the plug / wire entry. Fiddly but lovely plug and socket and not a fortune. this one is rated for 8 amps so more than enough, but a similar size to the std bit of open to elements junk. Heatshrink will be give an extar tweak to seal again when off.

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The MAT also done, AMP Injector plug size and type:

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Then early Staurday before Fridge arrived I cracked on grommeting . The idea here is that for instance on the fuel pump I am using another IP67 plug and socket - 2 way, prob here is removing the loom. I wnated it so I can get the loom off, so all the plugs must come through the gromet holes. I finally sourced some gromets, these are 35mm OD with 8mm ID

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Some more wire tidying so as to have the wires to be crimped / soldered in the right places :

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Then Mr Fridge turned up. People say I can't be that bad with electrics, Jon U saw that maybe I am when he mentiooned "Solder", "Yep I have some". Luckily he brought his own

His - 0.4mm Fluxed wire solder

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Mine - 6mm Plate wire solder :lol:

Anyway onwards we went

I continued in the engine bay, connecting up everything I could water into engine VR sensor on, engine loom tidyied up and zippy tied in place meant all lengths inside were where they should be.

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The MAT bend will need coating at some pint as its a combo of low grade stainless ord steel and other bits !. The whole assemble is held with only 2x hose clamps at each end, so I made a clamp on the throttle plate which bolts the tube to it, this means it will stya on !

Fuel pump done with waterproof plug and socket :

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Relays up into cubby Box 1 is Fuel Pump one is main, the other is a spare with the wide band calibration button and led glued to the base of a relay base, this has another waterproof 2 way plugs and socket, and can be removed when not in use

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Later in the day then saw the ECU Plug trimmed and beautifully soldered By Fridge, with heatshrink then applied to each pin, some more heatshrink on the outside brought the wires togther, and into the plug cover, I HUGE grommet I obtained means that I can shove the MS Box into a waterproof box, and have this big grommet as again a means to remove the harness fully if needed - box on order :) and the MAP blue tube (hate silicon but is fits into the MS box perfectly the balck stuff doesn't :)

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some tidying up whilst fridge did some black magic on the MS ECU

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The the EDIS got connected up and the VR as well,

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and the earths kept growing :lol:

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But bit by bit it comes together - ALL the sensors have had the earth run back to the MS ECU, then 5x earths go down to the battery alone with the other earths such as EDIS etc

Heatshrink and proper battery ring terminal, also the Lamda NB and WB plugs are in here waterprrof, and the one that is the WB has a "False" plug in to keep clean when not in use :

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And then the wires to the fuse box, Main Relay / Fuel Pump Relay and the damned dratted White wire which is the cause of the issue at the mo :lol:

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We had a minor issue with the starting - 1 coil had a wire the wrong way around, quick swap and all 8 fired, Fridge checked the Laptop readings and the File BBC had sent me along with my Ignition Map meant it gioes better than ever, and thats without any tunning which is to come.

It runs a tad rich, but better that way than lean, a blast around the roads near me saw big grins for both, Fridge has wanted me to Squirt this for Years

Should have listened to him earlier :lol:

NOW, if we can just get it to switch off !

Nige

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Nige...

I read this in awe and admiration.... A great job well done, fantastic write up and the only problem is you have to drive it around 24/7 stopping only for fuel !!!

Well done matey, looks fantastic.

Neil

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Credit to Nige for the job he's done on the wiring, for a guy who hates wires he's made a damn good job of it. Many LR owners think scotchloks are pinnacle of electronics :ph34r: I still have nightmares about all that lovely wiring terminating on two crappy old GLASS fuses <_< but that's for another day, probably the day after he tests the wading depth with MS'n'EDIS :lol:

And yes Nige, I like your new sig :lol: almost exorcised the prince of darkness, and now at least we've exorcised clockwork engine management too :D

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Loverly job Nige and all who helped you.

this series of threads will be a huge help to anyone doing the same.

Good work.

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Here is the item :

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This is to be placed in the alternator sensor wire,

for me the Thin Brown and yellow, this is basically to replace the wire, ...................not to be soldered in line with it.

Having cut the wire I was going to solder on some wire and have 2x spade terminals, ........

then I decided not to and solder it into the loom as a permenant fitting - after all if it fails I'll know - the 90 won't stop !

So, I had some whizzy joiners - these heat shrink on the to ends - the diode and the wire and then it has some solder inside that melts and flows around it, this is the short end to the alternator.

The diode needs to be fitted with the grey band towards the alternator and the other end towards the 90.

I then did the other end onto the 90, and added a cut off zippy tie for some strength and support / bulk and glue heatshrunk the whole lot together :

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This then did the trick, starts, runs, and stops when you turn the key off - Thanks a million all concerned. :)

A Final heavy duty tidy up under the bonnet, and inside too, amazing how many tools were now in the 90 !

replaced snorkel, coils packs switched around after Jon White whizzed over and swapped the 2x wires around replace bonnet etc etc etc :

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I then had to put my entire dashboard back together :hysterical: which took quite a time,

Then a tidy up of the tunnel covers, floor mats and fuse box cover and some trimming and reshaping and fiddling so all fits neatly, .........again don't forget this will all be coming out later to be loom taped up and all the zippy ties removed :

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A Blast around the area showed all ok and no visible leaks, the MS connected to the Laptop similarly showed (to my very limited eye) everything working as it should ish.....so you might think thats the end of this thread ?

Nooooooope :huh:

Tuning Now. :)

The engine actually doesn't run that badly,

The ignition map is probably right as this was done when I megajolted it back on the rolling road when the engine was behaving itself, but now I need to tune up the fuelling Maps which are nicked from BBCs MS Engine and then the amounts "Upped" by Fine Guestimate to a bigger cubic capacity - ie this one.

As such I think

1- its running rich, more so maybe a lower revs and tickover

2- on start up it seems very lumpy / rich and unhappy

3- once warmed up all settles down but smells rich

As such I need to use the MS capabilities to tune,

At present the 90 just has a Narrow band Heated Lamda in the Y piece of the exhaust,

but I also have a Wide Band Innovate LC1 with all the wiring now in place for analysis and tuning work.

First I will outline my knowledge on WB and NB Lamda / Megasquirt tunning :

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Ok, worked it out then :hysterical:

So, I have a load of stuff printed to read up and try to learn, and am hoping that maybe those who know -

ie Fridge and BBC may care to add a blow by blow a-z simple how to guide :) ??

If not I'll be back, ...............

Well, I'll be back anyway, just may take a time........................ :lol:

In the meanwhile I have a very useable V8 90 once again,

so far I am seriously impressed, even without the tunning and fine fettling it runs better than ever before :i-m_so_happy:

Yippe Dooo.......................and now some reading :ph34r:

Nige

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The engine actually doesn't run that badly,

As such I think:

1- its running rich, more so maybe a lower revs and tickover

2- on start up it seems very lumpy / rich and unhappy

3- once warmed up all settles down but smells rich

Doesn't run that badly... Don't some people make you laugh :lol:.

Having seen this very nicely executed project this afternoon, I think if most of us had it running half as sweetly as it does already, we would be over the moon.

A great job Nige and thanks again for your generous assistance - watch this space :)

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