whoisashley Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Hi i am completely new to this and i'm looking to get a winch. But i don't know wether to buy a hand winch or a electric winch. Other than the obvious that ones manual the other button operated i don't want to spend alot on a winch as i hardly need it at the moment but the feeling of security of having one would be nice. The other thing is if i do go for an electric one how powerful does it need to be to pull a range rover classic up or out of a situation. Any thoughts on this would really help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 8000lb minimum pull an EP9 Superwinch would seem to suit your requirements at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoisashley Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share Posted November 27, 2007 8000lb minimum pullan EP9 Superwinch would seem to suit your requirements at the moment OK cool next question is what would be the best place to get a bumper for it? and does it need to be a tubular or heavy duty or is it more a personal preference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 http://www.firstfouroffroad.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I quite like these (which are, on request, available in specific RRC fitting): from Guardian Cheaper and with better approach angles than most, although some trimming of the bodywork is required I feel... I think that I might request one without the bling-holes when I get mine.. TwoSheds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 For a more scientific version of "how powerful": The recovery bible - contains loads of far-too-in-depth tech but also contains this handy bit that will help you understand the forces involved: Surface resistance(LW = Laden weight of vehicle) A pull of 1/10 LW will cause a free wheeling truck to move on a hard, level surface. A pull of 1/3 LW will cause a free wheeling truck to move on a softer surface, such as grass or gravel, Damage resistance: A pull of 2/3 LW will be required to move if the wheels cannot rotate (as if the brakes were fully applied), the pull required to overcome the resistance (drag) the truck id 2/3 or 67% of the LW. Damage resistance includes surface resistance (i.e. you only use one or the other) Stuck (mire) resistance: A pull of 100% of LW will be required if the truck is stuck to a depth of the sidewall on the tires. A pull of 200% of LW will be required if the truck is stuck to the hubs. A pull of 300% of LW will be required if the truck is stuck to the frame.. Mire resistance includes damage resistance (i.e. you only use one or the other) Grade (slope) resistance: Upgrade (vehicle has to be recovered up a slope or grade) 15 degrees - add 25% of LW 30 degrees - add 50% of LW 45 degrees - add 75% of LW Vehicle recovery on level ground - no correction Downgrade (vehicle has to be recovered down a slope or grade) 15 degrees - subtract 25% of LW 30 degrees - subtract 50% of LW 45 degrees - subtract 75% of LW Final figure: Add surface or damage or mire resistance and grade resistance, and this is your final figure or rolling resistance. This is the amount of pull the winch must apply in order to recover the stuck vehicle. Yeah, 8000lbs is fine buy a snatch block and you've got 16,000lbs if you really need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I quite like these (which are, on request, available in specific RRC fitting): from Guardian Cheaper and with better approach angles than most, although some trimming of the bodywork is required I feel... I think that I might request one without the bling-holes when I get mine.. TwoSheds Looks like someone has nailed a rear crossmember onto the front of the disco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 With added holes for it to bend around when it meets any force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Attryde Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I prefer this one from Golddigger 4x4 the same as Geoff Beaumont has on his. hope you don't mind me nicking your pic Geoff and I would imagine they would do a range rover one. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 EP9's are a good value winch, and will happily drag a Range Rover about. The Southdown bumper is also very nice, although I would shy away from the standard pin type recovery points, and use rings as below: Since Dave builds the bumpers to order, I would have thought he could include that. I have to admit that I have no idea what they cost.... Enjoy Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 I would also second the Southdown bumper. Approach angle is as good as the standard bumper but you will need to relocate your oil cooler if you have an auto box (see the tech archive). I am sure Dave will do you a deal if you give him a ring offering beer tokens.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Just 'as a matter of interest'. Yesterday someone was requesting advice on accepting a bumper + winch deal offered because the winch initially supplied had failed 3 times, and the bumper once. The price mentioned was £1000, which was considered 'fair' by the respondees, with the proviso that it wasn't clear how much had been spent already. Based on the comments in that thread, suspect the EP90 mentioned here is cheaper that the Warn included in the other deal. However, if we bear in mind that this is a first fit, so there will be additional costs, such as rope, and possibly electrical bits, perhaps shackles, tree strops, pulleys and / or anchors (self recovery), are we still talking an all up price around £1000? I have in mind the comment in Post 1 " ... i don't want to spend alot on a winch as i hardly need it at the moment but the feeling of security of having one would be nice". You've very clearly and usefully addressed the 'how powerful' question, but I just wondered how much needs to be spent to achieve that feeling of security :-)) Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 David the EP9 is £475ish the 8274 nigh on £1000 El cheapo Chinese crappy copy £whoknows but worthless all the same First Four £640 winch/bumper up to £825 including plasma12 rope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 It is true that the cost of the winch isn't everything, my guestimate would be: Winch - EP9 - £450 Bumper - £200 - 250 Shackles and strops - £50 to start with Winch sail - £20 Gloves - £5 So probably around £800 all in. Should be able to do better than that if alll bought from the same place. It would be worth asking SteveG what he paid for his setup as that is an excellent benchmark. Edited to add - EP9 + bumper from first four is £699 so I wasn't far off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milemarker Type S Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Take a look on ebay under 'milemarker'- full hydro set up including dedicated pump and first four offroad shadow bumper with swivel recovery points for £800 buy it now... Only a few months old and new all the items come to about £1500... The pump mount is for a TD5 but this could easily be adapted or Allan at 4x4winches.com would probably trade the TD5 mount in for whatever one you need... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 But they are so sodding slow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milemarker Type S Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 But they are so sodding slow Slow yes- but very safe to learn about winching with- and upgradeable speed wise later, reliable yes, easy to fit yes, easy to use yes, waterproof yes, fit and forget yes... Need I go on? Shrek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 like a milemarker you mean upgradeable speed wise with mucho casho horses for courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Price-wise it's probably a good idea to wait and go shopping at the shows next year. I managed to pick up an absoulutely cracking deal on my EP9 with rope and ali hawse instead of wire and fairlead. The supplier also dropped the price further when I asked them to remove the unrated recovery equipment. On that note, it is also worth noting that there will be expense involved in purchasing properly rated shackles, snatch blocks and tree strops. Most winch package deals come with equipment that is not stamped/rated. The rated ones aren't expensive, but when you consider that you may be dangling off of one, it's worth the money. I have managed to do my whole set-up as shown in Mark's earlier post for less than £600. Winch, rope, hawse, shackles (4.75t), strops, snatch block and sail were all new. Bumper was s/h from another forumeer. Moving the oil cooler added another chunk of money, but the new pipes purchesed are somewhat over-engineered for the purpose. It's easier to buy all flexis than mess around with fixed pipes. Tech archive link to oil cooler relocation thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 It would be worth asking SteveG what he paid for his setup as that is an excellent benchmark. From FirstFour last year an EP9 without wire and fairlead, plus tubular winch bumper, plus SS hawse lead, plus SS recovery rings was 725 pounds Had 11mm plasma already, but budget 130-140 for this, and two HD 096 batteries were 100 pounds, so all in about 965 pounds btw the EP9 comes with Albright equivalent solenoid and a rated snatch block Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 But they are so sodding slow Yes agreed................ but I think you would agree that the MM should never have been sold as a 'steering pump' powered winch ! .......... its a bit like trying to power the back hoe of a JCB from the steering hydraulics of the tractor ! For the general user, I think you would have tyo go a long way to beat the EP9 for VFM ................ easy to use, powerful enough, good spares availabity, and relatively cheap................ However ............ and please dont take this the wrong way .................. if somebody is asking what power a winch needs to be , then ideally mucho training should be undertaken before this kit is used in anger.............. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Agreed as the MM with modifications is a fine winch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 ....would'nt want to get too far out of the envelope, but "don't want to spend too much" & " won't use it much " added to starting out brings Tirfor hand winchs to mind .....it's how I started out and indeed still have it plus another . They are good , safe - you can feel the load through the handle pull like a pulling thing and with a pulley block if you have time will do most things all for £100 or less s/h. ...I do like my hydro winches though cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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