Madcowz Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Hi, I am still searching for a suitable 110 CSW and was wondering how safe Defenders are in the event of an accident. I currently drive an H reg Clio and know that all that protects me is some French steel so I'm fairly concious of safety I imagine the chassis provides a lot of impact protection from the front and rear but what about side impact? Would the fitting of side sills help and if so are there any that give more passenger protection than others? What about higher up protection where there is no chassis, only the normal thin sides? I only ask as I saw an item on Fifth Gear (asfaik) where they crashed an old Volvo into a newer car (can't remember the make) and everyone expected the volvo to be better off due to it's solid build but the result was surprising in that the newer small car came off better. thanks, /Mad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Front on impact, pretty good. Side on impact, wouldn't really want to try it! There is not a lot to the doors or the pillars. It depends on what hits you - if it is a car then it will probably go underneath and you will be OK, if it is another 4x4 or a truck, you will suddenly have first hand experience of how much strength thin alloy sheet doesn't have Rollover - definitely not recommended.... the top of the cab will crumple like tinfoil down to the level of the instrument binnacle. Bearing in mind the handling characteristics of high 4x4 vehicles, a rollover is much more likely than in a car. I'll dig out some photos from home later on what they look like after they have been upside down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4444244 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 try and drive into something with crumple zones if you can! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 better still, try not to drive into anything at all.... as already said, most cars will go underneath and hit the chassis, anything bigger will just go through the sides, alloy ain't that strong after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 as you'll be sitting higher than most non-hgv traffic you should have a excellent view of whats going on around you & be able to safely avoid any nasty looking situations & keep your vehicle/self out of harms way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcowz Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 Thanks for replies. I take it that the alloy top has some form of roll cage built into it like normal cars? It isn't just thin metal? What would people recommend for strengthening it all up, external/internal roll cage? I'm not planning any mental off roading, just around the local farms but want to keep myself and the kids safe. thanks, /Mad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Here is a reason why you should not park a Defender on its roof: This is a 130 crewcab after a rollover but a 110SW cab is not that much stronger and I have seen a 110SW flat-packed down to the height of the instrument binnacle, I just didn't get a photo of it. The alloy top has no internal roll cage structure at all. Drive like you don't want it upside down, that is the best advice! These are at the extreme end of damage (though the one above was apparently not at very high speed) but generally speaking, relying on Defender upper bodywork for rollover protection is a bit like jumping off the Titanic in your birthday suit with only a set of water-wings and expecting that everything will be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Thanks for replies.I take it that the alloy top has some form of roll cage built into it like normal cars? It isn't just thin metal? What would people recommend for strengthening it all up, external/internal roll cage? I'm not planning any mental off roading, just around the local farms but want to keep myself and the kids safe. thanks, /Mad there's no roll cage on a factory standard vehicle except if it's part of the finished vehicle [i.e. tombraiders/NAS90's] a external cage would probably be the best as it's all outside & won't restrict the cab access/space for passengers. as BM says drive it to keep it rightside up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcowz Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 omg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 normal cars don't have any built in roll over protection aka rollcage like we know them, either, they get it because steel is stiffer than alloy & the roof pillars are designed to stay stiff if the worst happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcowz Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 normal cars don't have any built in roll over protection aka rollcage like we knoe them, either, they get it because steel is stiffer than alloy & the roof pillars are designed to stay stiff if the worst happens. That's what I was meaning by a 'roll cage'... the protection (albeit slight) provided by a monocoque chassis. Those images scare me. Imagine being in an accident on the m/w and rolling. There wouldn't be anything left. Does anyone else worry about the lack of protection or am I just being a big girls blouse? Also, any idea on the price for an external cage for a 110 CSW? thanks, /Mad EDIT: Just found these stats: "Road accident statistics on a model-by-model basis from the UK Department of Transport show that the Land Rover Defender and Land Rover Discovery are the safest cars on British roads (measured in terms of chance of death in two car injury accidents) - between three times safer than the safest Volvo models, twice as safe (half the death-rate per two vehicles injury accident) compared with the Jeep Cherokee and Toyota Land Cruiser and only matched by the Mercedes-Benz S-Class and Jaguar XJ." "Overall the four best vehicles to be in are the Jaguar XJ series 1%, Mercedes-Benz S-Class / SEC 1%, Land Rover Defender 1% and Land Rover Discovery 1%." Seems a bit more encouraging! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 never worried me, I treat mine like a Truck [which it is] not a car, so provided you drive sensibly & within the vehicles limits, all should be fine, loads of 90/110's are on the road without rollbars mine included. external cage for a 110 station wagon would be around 300 to 400 £ I believe. but don't quote me, as I've never looked into buying one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Unless you do some stupid maneuver that causes it to roll over I'd say it's fairly unlikely on normal roads. For reference quite a few other things fold up like that if you put them on the roof, it's usually if there's a separate chassis so the bodywork doesn't have to take any load. I've seen more than one flat SJ at a site day after a small roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Here's a nice rebuild/restore of a NAS 110 with the full internal/external rollcage from Safety Devices: I don't know the details on how fast the 110 was going and if it rolled over multiple times or what...ECR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruntus Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 My Dad rolled his 90 hybrid a couple of years ago and although the rook stayed up I was concerned that the windscreen area flattened. Nobody was seriously hurt but I have always thought a roll cage would be a good idea. The only thing I am self consious about is fitting a roll cage to my vapour build and never using it too heavily off road as it will be too pretty to bend when it is finished. Yes, I know what you are going to say but thats how I view most people with roll cages and Tomb Raider Defenders.... Price of an external road cage is about £800 + VAT and I have heard North Off Road are good with prices and customer service. Best regards Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 They are not fast vehicles by any stretch of the imagination and there are no airbags or inbuilt crumple zones. Of course you can never be 100% certain of what the other idiots on the road will do but as Ralph says if you drive it sensibly and not like a boy racer then your chances of avoiding getting into trouble are reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwhacker Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 If somone is having so many reservations about something maybe it would be wise to steer clear of it. Pardon the pun. I used to ride motorcycles in my younger years, and had a few spills and still suffer to this day. But thats what happened and it can not be changed. I can now say that I wish I had gotten in Land Rovering a lot sooner but I did not and am now, so there. At least now I am happyish, (more Land Rovers please) Mark ps whats with all the stats you have answered your own question, do you treat all your life like this? I hope I have not offended anyone as this is not what I intended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcowz Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 If somone is having so many reservations about something maybe it would be wise to steer clear of it. Pardon the pun. No reservations, just doing my research. ...do you treat all your life like this? Heh, yes I do. I research everything important that I do/buy extensively before I act. It has done me well over the years and I value my, and my 3 childrens lives more than anything else (oh, and the wife ). Surely I am not the only person to choose a vehicle based partially on safety ratings and just want to make sure I am purchasing the right thing. But don't worry, I can be impulsive and do have a spark in my life. In fact, I have an impulsive action planned for next week And don't worry, no offence taken. /Mad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripTrick Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Here is a reason why you should not park a Defender on its roof: This is a 130 crewcab after a rollover but a 110SW cab is not that much stronger and I have seen a 110SW flat-packed down to the height of the instrument binnacle, I just didn't get a photo of it. The alloy top has no internal roll cage structure at all. Drive like you don't want it upside down, that is the best advice! These are at the extreme end of damage (though the one above was apparently not at very high speed) but generally speaking, relying on Defender upper bodywork for rollover protection is a bit like jumping off the Titanic in your birthday suit with only a set of water-wings and expecting that everything will be ok. Oh Cr@p! were the people ok as that does not look good. Lucky my son and I were in my Series IIA when I rolled her just before Christmas. Did not crumple that much. Then Again I was offroading and Not on the motor way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mortus Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 whats your impulsive plans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 The first question to ask yourself is do you actually need a 110CSW... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Quite correct. A Discovery sounds ample for your needs. Your desires are another matter. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcowz Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 The first question to ask yourself is do you actually need a 110CSW... Good question: We need a vehicle that has more than 5 seats, can cope with going off road around farms/estates, will make a good shooting platform for lamping foxes/rabbits and has the type of interior that can be easily washed down after being coated in blood/mud/straw etc ie, I can chuck a deer in the back without worrying about runing the trim. Oh, it also needs to be able to tow a trailor and have enough space for the family and related items for holidays. Quite correct. A Discovery sounds ample for your needs. Your desires are another matter. Chris We started off looking at a disco but soon realised that the two dicky seats in the back were inward facing (as they are on a 110) but that there was no option to replace them with forward facing (and thus be able/allowed to fit seat belts) unless we went for a Td5. The cost of which was entering the realms of 110s. And to be honest, both my wife and I both love the 110 look soooo much and we have always wanted one. /Mad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Well the reasons are fine as those are the same kind of reasons I have them too ...nice to meet someone else involved in countrysports That said if you've never spent much time in one you need to be mindful that if you are going to have one for day to day use a 110 is more truck in feel than car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Unless you do some stupid maneuver that causes it to roll over I'd say it's fairly unlikely on normal roads. Not neccesarily. Someone may clip you whilst changing lanes on the wet motorway whilst your doing about 100Km/h causing the 110 to slew into the earth divider. This then launches the 110 into the air doing a barrel roll and it lands on it's roof. Luckily that 110 was a HT and had a homemade loadbay divider out of 50x25x3mm box-section steel, although it bent through 180degrees. There wasn't much left of the 110 never mind the upper body. So I would strongly advise an external rollcage to anyone driving a defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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