How safe is a 110 SW for passengers

[Dave K]

I own both a Clio, & a 110 SW.

I know which one I'd prefer to have an accident in..............................!

Then again, I'd prefer not to have any accidents.

[landroversforever]

the safety devices 110 cage doesnt have any diagonals, nor do alot of cages for H/Ts and S/Ws unless you ask for them.

[jeremy996]

The Department of Transport report is more or less the last word in two car accidents, i.e. a Defender is a good place to be if you have to have that sort of accident.

By number, most accidents happen at slow speed and within 3 miles of home, so in this scenario a Defender is a great place to be - the other car gets written off and yours gets a little more character. So long as you are all belted in with a three point belt, (and the dog is behind a guard), survivability is almost a given. Lap belts and loose luggage are the most likely hazards to be avoided.

Land Rovers don't survive single vehicle accidents as well statistically as other vehicles. These are frequently "leaving the road" type accidents, hitting solid objects, going down ditches, that sort of thing and usually involve some combination of inexperience, excess speed, alcohol, drugs, tiredness or inattention for other reasons, (phones/changing the CD etc.). Having said they don't survive this sort of accident very well, Land Rovers, especially Defenders, don't have them that often. Much of this will be down to the demographic that drive Land Rovers, (not many boy racers, often enthusiasts) and partly by the nature of the vehicle - very good visibility, hard to drive without engagement, (you do have to DRIVE it).

Since I started driving my 110 CSW I've noticed that speed across county is no longer my imperative - I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of time for a smooth drive, (this is probably to keep cabin noise down), and I normally leave more space between me and the vehicle in front. Since March 2006, I have had two people drive into the 110, a women in a Daewoo on her mobile and a male prat in a mondeo who split his radiator on my dixon bate hitch in a petrol pump queue.

The best safety investment I ever made was an IAM training course and test.

[disco tony]

I got some of these to add some safety in the rear for the kids. I've stupidly yet to fit them though.

He will do a deal for more than one

rear sear belts

(over to you Ralph to shorten it to a linky!)

[FridgeFreezer]

Not neccesarily.

...

So I would strongly advise an external rollcage to anyone driving a defender.

There's always an exception of course, but if the weakness of the top half of Land Rovers was a major safety thing I think it would've been highlighted sometime in the past 60 years yes an external cage is a good idea but then you could say the same about a Clio - you're far more likely to survive an accident in one of those if you weld in a comp spec roll cage too but I don't see many people doing it on their daily driver

[white90]

I have an 05 110CSW XS for sale if you are interested

[neil00001]

Here is a reason why you should not park a Defender on its roof:

Hey Bogmonster, did that happen on the Stanley Road by any chance? Last time I was in your neck of the woods that seemed to be regular pastime of the ermmm imported work force between MPA and Stanley.......

Now that this has been brougt to light I will seriously think about getting an external cage when I buy a 110.

Cheers,

[BogMonster]

Hey Bogmonster, did that happen on the Stanley Road by any chance? Last time I was in your neck of the woods that seemed to be regular pastime of the ermmm imported work force between MPA and Stanley.......

No it actually happened on W Falkland but yes there are statistically rather more green ones upside down than other colours

However the MOD have fitted speed limiters to the whole Td5 fleet, they now won't do more than 40mph, and since that the accident rate has dropped by about 90% - proof if any were needed that people driving at unsafe speeds is a major cause of accidents!

[tacr2man]

I would say that its not the ''unsafe speed'' its that the speed is in excess of what the driver is capable of in the situation , if you get my drift , no offence intended

[Explorer4x4]

I fitted southdown rock slider to my 110 CSW for exactly the reason of side impact protection. Ok it's not going to stop everything but will help.

As for roll over I think that is something that happens to the unlucky few. If you are that worried fit a cage from a reputable manufacturer.

[Night Train]

You may also want to consider that if you were to use your Landy in a way that may risk it rolling over and so need a cage for protection then the extra weight of a cage so high up may prompt the rollover to happen sooner then with an uncaged one.

The risk of rolling over is really as much to do with the way the vehicle is driven and the allowance made for any uneven terrain.

In my youth I was able to four wheel drift and do reverse J turns a Series 3 109 SW with XCL Radials without it rolling and all on tarmac. I was also able to trial and greenlane it without laying it down. I never had a cage because it never went beyond its, or my, limits.

Driven carefully and you may not need a cage at all, however, if you feel that the risk is there then get the best you can afford and proper 3 point seat belts as well.

[alantd]

You're very right to think about the safety in an accident. I completely agree with the comments about being able to drive more carefully (height + speed) in a Defender and less tempting to do something stupid given the truck-feel of a 110 but chances are you're not going to be the one causing the accident.

I've just replaced our BMW 5 series with a 110 as the family car. I had to think seriously about safety. You have no airbags, no side impact protection and you sit right next to the doors, no monocoque strength in the event of a rollover (as discussed) and bugger all crumple protection.

• In the event of a head on, you'll be shocked but fine - chances are you'll use the other car as your buffer and the weight of the 110 will work to your advantage and reduce the "impulse" shock (speed of deceleration).
  
• In a rear shunt you'll be similarly protected.
  
• In a side shunt (T-bone) you will need to rely on the other car having a lower nose than your sides. I have side runners on mine, which look the business but won't really stand up to much in a crash. Your saving grace is really only your height - remember you're sitting considerably higher as well, which means your vital organs are higher so you're likely only to suffer lower body injuries.
  
• In a motorway roll, you're less likely to barrel-roll. The big slab sides will help stop this. I've seen a couple of Defenders that have been upended and most end up sliding on their sides as opposed to cars that would have tumbled over and over in the same circumstances. Roll cage would obviously help here.
  
• Your main worry is the offset head-on, where the lack of a thought-through crumple zone could push the bulkhead onto your legs. The lack of legroom in the foot well will also likely crush the steering column onto your knees. Roll cage and bull bars aren't going to doing anything to help this. again - you're relying on the weight of the vehicle and speed of impact but probably the biggest crash weakness in a Defender.
  

All of that said, I did replace the BMW (more airbags, impact bars and crumple zones than I could count) with the 110. I was tempted to fit a roll cage (you don't have to fit a full cage but they can cost up to £1,500) but I don't think it is immediately necessary. A roof rack will also help prevent barrel-roll but keep it lightly loaded as a fully laden roof rack will also make it more prone to rolling. The only concession I make is to put our baby son in the middle of the rear seats, not next the doors, in case of side impact.

The stats you found are very interesting and are more than likely a factor of the way they're driven and their relative strength in the mild-moderate accidents (which might be worse in other cars). Overall, I considered it very carefully but the 110 is the right choice for us (and sounds like it is for you too). Might be worth saving up for a roll cage at some stage in the future.

Hope this helps.

Alan

[tonyalbers]

I fitted southdown rock slider to my 110 CSW for exactly the reason of side impact protection. Ok it's not going to stop everything but will help.

As for roll over I think that is something that happens to the unlucky few. If you are that worried fit a cage from a reputable manufacturer.

I added some jackable sills bought from paddocks to our 110" STW, they seem quite strong, and will probably help a bit. At least they are better than just the alloy panels.

/tony

[Night Train]

[*]In the event of a head on, you'll be shocked but fine - chances are you'll use the other car as your buffer and the weight of the 110 will work to your advantage and reduce the "impulse" shock (speed of deceleration).

This also means that the other car will take more impact then if it hit a similar vehicle and so greater injuries will occur. The lack of crumple zones on a Land Rover will also go against you if you were to hit a bigger vehicle, a truck, or an immovable object.

This could be argued with fair pros and cons on both sides but ultimately it will come down to driver awareness and defensive driving to reduce the risks, whoever is at fault, both on and off road.

[alantd]

This also means that the other car will take more impact then if it hit a similar vehicle and so greater injuries will occur. The lack of crumple zones on a Land Rover will also go against you if you were to hit a bigger vehicle, a truck, or an immovable object.

This could be argued with fair pros and cons on both sides but ultimately it will come down to driver awareness and defensive driving to reduce the risks, whoever is at fault, both on and off road.

Agreed

[BogMonster]

I would say that its not the ''unsafe speed'' its that the speed is in excess of what the driver is capable of in the situation , if you get my drift , no offence intended

You are right. Some of the green ones can't travel at all fast without having an accident. One of them got rolled inside the MOD camp a couple of years ago, where the speed limit is 30mph and it was on a completely straight stretch of tarmac

[Madcowz]

Some excellent replies guys, thanks.

I will be driving it slowly, much like I drive now. Only ever had one insurance claim since I past my test 20 years ago and I was sat at my desk at work and the car was parked when an idiot clobbered it.

It is the other drivers I am wary of, those yapping away on their mobile or just too damn important to drive slowly.

thanks,

/Mad

[JimC]

With respect to the comment that ARB's and bullbars dont offer any benefit, I'll offer the following threads and let you come to your own conclusions:

http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4566

http://www.d-90.com/discus/messages/46/2135.html

[callum]

if the weakness of the top half of Land Rovers was a major safety thing I think it would've been highlighted sometime in the past 60 years

that's why NAS 110's had external cages. failed roll over tests for the US market. perhaps representative of a more litigious society.

my advice ouwld be to avoid crashing your defender, i expect it would hurt lots.

[Simon Smith]

I have a mate who is a traffic cop on the M25. He bought a 110 CSW to transport his family around on the basis that he had never come across anyone badly injured in one. He told me that their own statistics indicate that a Defender is the vehicle you are most likely to walk away from after a crash.

[Madcowz]

I have a mate who is a traffic cop on the M25. He bought a 110 CSW to transport his family around on the basis that he had never come across anyone badly injured in one. He told me that their own statistics indicate that a Defender is the vehicle you are most likely to walk away from after a crash.

That is quite a good recommendation. Any Police working on the M25 will have a good idea of what a safe vehicle is.

/Mad

[alantd]

That is quite a good recommendation. Any Police working on the M25 will have a good idea of what a safe vehicle is.

/Mad

+1

[Mr Bean]

Can anyone recommend a good roll cage manufacturer?

What are the different designs available and what do they offer?

[landroversforever]

the ones i can think of :

Protection and Performance

NorthOffroad

Safety Devices

Whitbread Offroad

[Mr Bean]

Do you have any personal experience of these companies?

Thanks