MINESAPINT Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 I have a small boat which I launch with my Defender. The boat weighs about half a ton and is on a 2 wheeled trailer. On firm sand it is no problem but for use on soft sand the trailer could be improved by the addition of additional wheels. I could purchase an additional axle with much wider tyres to make a 4 wheel trailer but this would be a costly option. I wonder if I could clamp a piece of tubing to the trailer with U bolts and arrange a couple of wheels/tyres to spin on this tubing and be positioned with stops. I would also like to arrange the spare set of tyres so they do not touch the ground until the main tyres sink into the sand. Anybody ant ideas? MINESAPINT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Howabout welding some lugs on the trailer wheel rims and making a set of bolt on twin wheels? You can, if you have an area of clear chassis, U bolt on a second axle. The best way to do this would be to look on ebay for a trailer axle of the right size and carry it on the trailer until it is needed. They turn up from time to time with a caravan chassis attached to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 You could bolt on a couple of small wheels behind the main axle that are off the ground and then make up a set of conveyor belt tracks to go around them to make a tracked trailer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Years ago there were some big, ribbed, bolt on buckets (think they were called cogs) that could be used on Land Rover sized wheels. Perhaps finding, or making, something like this would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Does it have to be wheels? I got bogged on soft sand a few years ago because both axles on the trailer sunk and the drawbar turned into a plough - Problem with twin axles is that the front one creates a trough and the second axle falls in it too. Why not bolt a skid plate on the bottom of the lowest part of the trailer so that it sledges when the wheels get buried... Either have a double ended skid or only go forwards on the soft stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 The RNLI use tracks, but then they're using quite a substantial boat... The tractor unit is a mean bit of kit too, the hydraulic winch is huge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Why not bolt a skid plate on the bottom of the lowest part of the trailer so that it sledges when the wheels get buried. That sounds a bloody good and simple idea - I like seeing simple ideas thrown in like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 How about getting a length of plastic (HDPE or PP) water pipe and making a wheel extension out of that. You could even make a tube with a ring on either end that the trailer tyre rus inside but with bigger diameter and width. After all, it does not need any grip, just footprint area. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 how about a couple of 'ski's'? with raised front and rears so you can reverse too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Why not buy some wider wheels & tyres for the trailer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MINESAPINT Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 Thanks for replies guys, Buying some wider wheels/tyres is the simple option. The tyres at the moment are 145/80. The skids/ski's are a good idea but the beach is generally strewn with rocks/cobbles. It is sometimes difficult to drive round them all. A tyre would cross over these more comfortably. I did enquire at an Indespension dealer who quoted me for some wider wheels & tyres which I seem to remember were pretty expensive. Not sure if the hubs/wheels are specific to trailers or will other wheels fit? I think the dealer was trying to give me the impression other wheels would not fit. Mini, Clio, etc but he was trying to extract about £200 from me for 2 wheels & 2 tyres. Once I have sorted some wider tyres for the trailer I will still be interested in providing an additional axle so the spare tyres will not run in the same grooves made by the trailer tyres. Hope to fit them between the main trailer frame on a piece of stainless tubing. I should add the trailer never goes on the road. This arrangement is for the beach only. The wheels look about the same size as a mini wheel. How can I check the fitment? MINESAPINT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MINESAPINT Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 Just looked at my spare wheel. Tyres size 145/80 B10 Wheel has on it: 3.50Bx10H2 I know how the tyre sizing works, not sure about the wheel. I measured the stud spacings on the wheels: 4 Stud diagonally about 4 inches but about 3 inches apart around the circumference. MINESAPINT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSIIA Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 The important bit for fitting to hubs is called the Pitch Circle Diameter (PCD) and on a 4 stud hub it is measured centre to centre across two diametrically opposite studs. Should be 4" exactly for a Mini wheel. There are others that are fairly close (IIRC 100mm and 110mm) as used on more modern cars (generally of foreign origin). Another thing that you may have to consider is the back spacing to make sure an alternative rim would not foul the trailer, boat, etc. A bit more width should help on soft sand, but a corresponding increase in diameter would go that bit further - lengthens the footprint when the tyre sinks. Think about how steep an angle the leading edge of the tyre makes when sunk an inch into the sand and then consider a larger rolling diameter. Also, can you run with low pressure floatation tyres (quad bike?) or even you current tyres aired down? IIRC, Hillman Imps, Vauxhall Vivas and Austin Metros all had 12" rims with a 4" PCD, and there may be others with 13" rims that would take something ~175 / 185 wide. All except the Metro might be hard to find in a breakers these days though. If the trailer is for beach only, and never sees a road, why not pick up a set of larger rims that fit over the centre of the hub and drill them to suit the stud pattern? Speeds will be low, not much mileage and you should check periodically that the nuts stay tight. More or less anything could fit (barring LR rims!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discojmz Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 vauxhalls, rovers, hondas and many more use 4x100PCD fords, peugeots, citroens and many more use 4x108PCD try and measure as accurately as you can and then go scrapper trauling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Also check out caravans, some have alloy wheels these days. Ignore the indespension guy. If it was a heavy trailer I'd say be careful about the load ratings but most cars weigh at least a ton so a half ton boat shouldn't be a massive issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 If it is beach use only then I would get a load of cheap wheels, the bushed ones that are used for boat launchers and wheel barrows and bolt them on to the chassis of the trailer. I think they are 20mm or 25mm bore. I made up a trolley for moving stone with a couple held on with M20 bolts to a frame. You could have a number of them behind and in front of the true axle and slightly off the ground so it is still able to turn on hard ground but will spread the weight on the soft stuff. My personal route would be to fit wide twin tyres, on twin axles if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 You could get some 'Mini' stub axles and bolt them to each end of a length of steel box. The box can then be bolted to the existing axle hub so that you have a walking beam that looks like a twin axle set up. If you are determined to off set the track then you can do that with the box section and some welding of have one stub axle facing inwards and the other facing outwards if there is clearance. You could have four wheels per side with stub axles facing in and out at each end of the walking beam. This could be done with mini hubs or you can go cheap skate and use wheel barrow type boat launch wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MINESAPINT Posted May 12, 2008 Author Share Posted May 12, 2008 Definitely going for some larger diameter wheels fitted with largest tyres possible. Slight increase in height of trailer will be advantageous anyway. Just been looking on ebay and there are plenty for sale sets of 4/5 for under £10! Might be a bit ropey but hey they will be dipped in the sea every day and the trailer is less likely to get nicked with shabby wheels on it. If anyone is interested I noticed a set of 5 Series 2 Land Rover steel wheels on Ebay just been primed and look mint. 13 hours to go and currently 99p. MINESAPINT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooops Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Definitely going for some larger diameter wheels fitted with largest tyres possible. Slight increase in height of trailer will be advantageous anyway.Just been looking on ebay and there are plenty for sale sets of 4/5 for under £10! Might be a bit ropey but hey they will be dipped in the sea every day and the trailer is less likely to get nicked with shabby wheels on it. If anyone is interested I noticed a set of 5 Series 2 Land Rover steel wheels on Ebay just been primed and look mint. 13 hours to go and currently 99p. MINESAPINT I'm in much the same position, except that the trailers have to be road going. I have them running on Land Rover rims. How feasible and how much benefit would there be in fitting longer wheel studs to the hubs allowing the trailer to travel to the site on single rims and on arrival bolt on our vehicle spares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 If it never goes on road, as i recall you saying above why not use floatation tyres, as found on launching trolleys for everything from a 18ft Hobie Cat to a mirror dinghy! Big, low ground pressure, and cheap too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I'm in much the same position, except that the trailers have to be road going. I have them running on Land Rover rims. How feasible and how much benefit would there be in fitting longer wheel studs to the hubs allowing the trailer to travel to the site on single rims and on arrival bolt on our vehicle spares? I wouldn't just extend the the studs as the outer wheel will not have any location to keep it central to the inner wheel or for it to take any load. You could weld on location tabs or a ring around the rim of the inner wheel to locate the outer and then use 'long studs' to pull them together but it won't be good because studs won't like being extended and the tyres would be rubbing sidewalls and that isn't good. The way it was done on the Thornycroft Antar heavy truck was to have a large diameter tube that had a flange at one end that was bolted on to the inner wheel (you can use slightly extended studs for this or bolt it to another part of the wheel that might be safe to have holes in it) and on the outer end held studs for the outer wheel. I don't really like the idea of extended studs though, not sure why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MINESAPINT Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 Can now confirm the wheels are 100 PCD and have also found a list of wheel fitments on the internet provided by an alloy wheel supplier. I now have a comprehensive list of suitable donor motors. Still have a few questions: As my previous post I have found hundreds of suitable wheels available on ebay. I therefore thought I should try to establish which of these are in my location (Whitby, N Yorks). Is this possible on ebay or do I have to look at everything advertised? Having established the wheels are 100PCD is it likely that all the studs will be the same size/thread? MINESAPINT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 If you're logged in, you can sort results by distance, rather than time left, price etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MINESAPINT Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 Further to my post about towing a boat on sand. I am planning to fit additional wheels to my trailer as follows: Trailer frame is 5 feet wide. Plan to buy a length of stainless or alloy tube about 2 inches OD 6 feet long and U bolt it to the underside of the frame. Also plan to buy a set of 4 alloy wheels and bolt them together in pairs using the fixing holes and lengths of threaded rod. So I will end up with 2 sets of double wheels. Now if the centre holes in the wheels matched the size of the tube they can be threaded onto the tube which will act as an axle. What can go wrong? MINESAPINT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Wightman Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 What can go wrong?MINESAPINT Plenty! This subject has been fairly well discussed HERE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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