Working and making mods on your own vehicle

[Guest diesel_jim]

I'm with you on that Ralph, sodding spineless politicians.

Here's the colour codes (old & new)

[landmannnn]

At least I know that if I have a home wiring query then this is the place to come!

On a more serious note wouldn't a certificated (short) training course be a sensible way to license amateur mechanics?

[FridgeFreezer]

Even better are the DC wiring codes, they were Blue/Black but the new code is Black/Blue (everything telecoms is -50v positive earth, to say there's going to be fun and games is an understatement!)

[western]

its the outer layer thats changed, was white now grey

Ah right, so is white outer cable still available or has it all changed to grey ?

[Steve Warman]

I know you can get white in flex but i've only seen grey in twin and earth recently.

Just another slight angle to the part P is that you can do your own work and then get it certified. I did and the sparks come in spent half an hour run some tests and gave me a certificate to satisfy the building notice, only cost me about 20 quid to get him in.

[LandyManLuke]

what's outer cable colour got to do with it?

[western]

Cheers all for the house wiring insight, so maybe we better get back to vehicles, if god forbid that stupid rule does come & only garages can fix/rebuild/modify,

a - wonder who is going to oversee/regulte & licence them

b - it's going to cost a fortune to regulate

c - I'm betting lots of garages don't want or need the extra work

d - wonder how much the cost to owners will be

bet the dumb lot haven't thought of any of those

[FridgeFreezer]

I can't work out exactly how serious any of that is - last time I looked Europe was going for more openness in standards for things like diagnostics and making technical data available precisely to stop the manufacturers from running dealerships like protection rackets. I can't see how screwing millions of small and not-so-small businesses across Europe and sending thousands of repairable cars to the scrapyard would get very far with most people, including the more switched-on green groups.

Parts of it sounded more like a UKIP broadcast or Daily Mail headline than anything based in reality, in the traditional "Now crazy Brussels bureaucrats want to ban your DOG" stylee

[Superpants]

I'm with Fridge here- The 'Bureaucrats' don't sit around just trying to think up ways to stop us doing things- in both the introduction of the gas regulations and the part P building regs, there was strong evidence to suggest that the changes would bring a reduction in deaths or injuries.

To the best of my knowledge we haven't seen a plethora of court cases involving modifications to vehicles proven to be the cause of accidents sufficient to actually trigger the legislators to clamp down on this. What we have seen is changes to bring the laws in line across Europe with the replacement of the SVA- I would have thought that if there was an issue, we would have seen legislation proposed at the same time as this???

Maybe we all have to take a bit of a step back and ask ourselves when we go about modifying our vehicles whether we are doing it in the safest way possible, using appropriate materials, tools and techniques- a responsible attitude to doing this will do us all wonders in the future if we do ever get questioned. I think this forum does a very good job on this front- we do have experienced people to call on, we have a knowledge base of 'best practice' when it comes to the common (and the not so common) mods and we have a competent and professional supplier base to us. If we keep this level of professionalism up, I don't think we have anything to worry about.....

[reads90]

This is world wide problem

In Aus to get over it you have to have the car test mechanically by a government inspector to check that any mods that you have done are roadworthy and safe

Then you get a Modification Plate which goes onto the car (under the bonnett or anywhere where the panel it is attc to can't be removed, mine is on the door pillar as they could not find anyhting to attc it to under the bonnett). These modication plates you have to get for each mod. So new axles you get one, new engine (If differant to original), Bigger surpension and tyres , Imported car (as with my 90), Roll cage ( which also has to meet CAMs (aussie MSA) regs and be tested )

So what this means if you go to the outback challenge or the like you will see a truck there will have about 6 of these blue modification plates. They also have department of transport inspectors who will stop a car on the road and check it is legal. Often you see then sat out side off road park chacking that all the mods have a modifaction plate , remeber we don't have MOTs or anything like that here (while you own the car, only when you sell it do you have to get a roadworthy)

Not a bad idea i my mind, with the pratts about these days

Here is mine to give you an idea of what they are like

I don't disagree with it after all i have far too many times see an idiot buy a welder of ebay and then he thinks he is god gift and starts to build all sort of carp and then drives in on the road and off road. I can name a few off the top of my head

[disco tony]

I can also name you numerous garages whos welding would makes pigeons constipated!!!! How many do you know certified to BS4872?

This works both ways.

[Dutchgit]

Here in Germany it's okay to do your own modifications but you'll need papers with the parts you're using saying that they are TUV approved. The vehicle will have to be inspected to see if they are fitted properly.

You can get away with fitting stuff and not tell 'em but it will fail on it's next inspection. Besides the fact that it makes your insurance void.

It can be a headache at times but you won't have trailing arms on your motor that can snap off ...

[streaky]

Latest law in the UAE is that anything apart from factory fit bolt-ons is banned. We go for our MOT test once a year and the testing officer has to decide if the two inch lift and ARB bullbar comes as standard on that particular vehicle.

Any stickers on the car also have to be removed from the car before testing. This even includes a small one on the back window saying which football team you support or what 4x4 club you are with!

I removed the rear seats from my Discovery recently and it failed because the registration document said it was a four seater. I showed the cop a phone pic of the seats in my living room....he passed the car eventually after I got the signature from the Cheif of Police.

Any repairs done to a vehicle chassis render the car a write-off.

It's getting tough to do anything to ones car without breaking the law these days.

[q-rover]

Here in Germany it's okay to do your own modifications but you'll need papers with the parts you're using saying that they are TUV approved. The vehicle will have to be inspected to see if they are fitted properly.

You can get away with fitting stuff and not tell 'em but it will fail on it's next inspection. Besides the fact that it makes your insurance void.

It can be a headache at times but you won't have trailing arms on your motor that can snap off ...

You would fit right in here.

[tel]

if they made this the law id be out of a job as we sell parts for classic mg's and triumphs

[Daan]

The story of banning to sell carparts to normal people keeps popping up; If that is going to be the new rule, a lot of people will be out of a job very quickly. Think about Halfords closing the doors. The government will not be keen to that at all. I think that that is the reason why the IVA (or SVA) didnt work out as difficult as was originally proposed. If it did, a lot of kit car companies and professional body manufacturers could have closed the doors overnight.

I think it is one of them cases were they propose something very unworkable, and after lots of arguing, something more workable is decided. Politics for you.

Daan

[Hillbilly Rebel]

The use of MT's on the road will be ilegal as from 2011 ..too noisy it seems

[headhunter]

Non payment of subs?

My other guess would be boneing the chairman's wife at the Christmas party.

Chris

Now that I would not like to witness

John

[dollythelw]

I think Daan in my jaded and cynical view of UK politics the question should be asked

"who's likely to line the politicians pockets the most?" large scale motor manufacturers of the makers of the Scrudgely superior motorised parambulator

followed by "which headline will most impress the unwashed masses and therefore get me re-elected - all we need is some poorly thought out knee jerk legislation"

common sense and politics are strangers, political "bungs" carry much more weight

the PFI initiative, gun legislation, hunting ban, offroad training for bikes but not cars etc etc etc

[freeagent]

I think we have two different issues here.. the Maintenance of vehicles and the Modification of vehicles..

I can see the modification of vehicles becoming harder and harder, but I don't see how the government can do a great deal about the home maintenance of vehicles...

However, as new vehicles become ever more complex, with fewer parts that can be replaced by the home mechanic I reckon home maintenance will dwindle aswell..

We all have a responsibility to ensure the vehicles we drive are safe and legal, if you do something and are not sure about it you can always take the vehicle somewhere and have it inspected... ignorance is no excuse, and it won't get you very far in court.

If the poor maintenance or inapropriate modification of a vehicle leads to an accident then I personally think the person responsible should be accountable for their actions...

I work in an Industry (Heavy Engineering) where we can be dragged through the courts if our actions lead to somebody being injured or killed.. so i have the same opinion of home mechanics...

[Hillbilly Rebel]

Re my earlier post

http://www.bundesverband-reifenhandel.de/n...egelung-117.pdf

[GBMUD]

Re my earlier post

http://www.bundesverband-reifenhandel.de/n...egelung-117.pdf

Can I refer you to the forum charter, linked above? "This is a plain English forum! This means that submissions should be clearly composed in English"

Any chance of a translation of the salient points from the document referred to? Just for those not so well versed in technical German.

Thanks

Chris

[The Yak]

The use of MT's on the road will be ilegal as from 2011 ..too noisy it seems

(Slighty off thread, but....)

Hmmmm..... we live on a main road only a few miles outside a city.

Every day we see farmers in 4x4's WITH MT's towing stock trailers straight off the farm going to market or simply travelling from field to field.

Every day we see BT 4x4's WITH MT's going to their worksites often off road. (They came into our back yard once and needed MT's on our clay soil !)

Every day we see National Grid 4x4's WITH MT's going to their worksites which is usually off road.

Every day we see the Environment Agency in their 4x4's WITH MT's going to off road locations usually by the river.

Every day we see the local vets in their 4x4's with MT's going to attend to stock in fields.

The likes of BT and National Grid go to extra expense to fit wider section rims and MT's......because they cannot get to their work sites without them!

So, is Brussels going to give exemption to those that need MT's, and what would be the criteria?

Or, does everybody have to carry a spare set of rims and tyres with them?

I do not think that Brussels have thought this through!

Living on a main road I can say that MT's are NOT a noise pollution problem. Trucks and motorbikes ARE!

Bob.

[imspanners]

I can't work out exactly how serious any of that is - last time I looked Europe was going for more openness in standards for things like diagnostics and making technical data available precisely to stop the manufacturers from running dealerships like protection rackets. I can't see how screwing millions of small and not-so-small businesses across Europe and sending thousands of repairable cars to the scrapyard would get very far with most people, including the more switched-on green groups.

Parts of it sounded more like a UKIP broadcast or Daily Mail headline than anything based in reality, in the traditional "Now crazy Brussels bureaucrats want to ban your DOG" stylee

OT re home repairs but relevant bit of info for garage repairers...

Mercedes and BMW(soon) are changing their systems to counter the freedom to repair rules.

As there are so many diagnostic systems available now for these manufacturers, and they're loosing work hand over fist (I'm not surprised). They've now stopped supplying any security related items to Joe public or "The Trade."

So if you need keys, immobiliser modules, or any ECU within the car which is linked to the security system, it MUST go back to the dealer!

This is acceptable within the EU directive as it's "security related"....

[disco_al]

a lot of the manufacturers are trying to get the block exemption overturned, which allows the standard trade access to diagnostics data - this is what the right to repair campaign is about.

security related stuff i can see as being "refer to dealer" for a long time - otherwise whats the point of having security systems if anyone can buy the kit to disable them?

merc's have always been awkward to get keys for - IIRC you need log book, ID, blood samples, signed confession from a high court judge, as well as dna evidence

at the end of the day, it will be down to the relationship between the independants and their local dealers, most of the ones round here will tell us pretty much anything we need to know