iomlt Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hello, Sorry if this is incredibly stupid question but i'm in need of some help. I have a 2 x 3.9 systems both do not use lamba sensors. I am trying / searching here and reading the rrc manuals and i cannot for the life of me find a wiring diragram of my systems. Every diagram i come across they have lamba's. am i missing something incredibly simple? Reason for the question is, I have a V8 90 (genuine) and i'm putting a 3.9 efi into her. Sooo i'm wanting to work out what connections i need to put where so the wiring diagram as you could imagen is critical. I have Lr manuals and i have looked on here for diagrams found lots and all 'seem' to have lamba's. So hopefully i'm being slightly stupid and some kind sole on here can laugh at me and put me right.. iomlr p.s if pictures are needed or details of the systems i have (ecu number etc) then i can do.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveRK Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 someone else will hopefully be along to either confirm or deny this but I think that all you need to do for a 'non-lambda' installation is connect the correct value 'tune resistor' to the ECU. This specific value resistor tells the ECU that the system does not use Lambdas sensor feedback and is referred to as an 'open loop' system - meaning that the ECU will used fixed parameters for the fuelling based upon inputs from the throttle position sensor, engine coolant/fuel temp and air flow meter inputs. This means that all wiring (other than the omission of Lambdas) will be the same for Lambda equipment and non Lambda equipped engines as will the ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 thanks for the info. but lol always a but the harnesses i have are both genuine non touched /played with and do not have lamba's... so why am i struggling to find diagrams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 thanks for the info. but lol always a but the harnesses i have are both genuine non touched /played with and do not have lamba's... so why am i struggling to find diagrams? Because the harness is basically completely the same, just minus the lambda sensors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Because the harness is basically completely the same, just minus the lambda sensors. I think you forgot the M word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Perfect thank you....... whats the m word? :S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 i think it ends in ...squirt.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 i think it ends in ...squirt.. never... after the fail i saw with mega squirt compared to a fairly standard 4.6 (bar blanking and breather too the dizzy) in a certain event i wouldnt ever go that route! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 never... after the fail i saw with mega squirt compared to a fairly standard 4.6 (bar blanking and breather too the dizzy) in a certain event i wouldnt ever go that route! Please - enlighten us! (With pictures if possible ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 What he said - not heard of any proper failures in the field, interested to hear what went wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patch1 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hi all am doing the same but my 3.5 engine has Lambdas on it and am fitting them in to the Janspeed manifolds. Surely having them and then having a closed loop system is better than an open loop one, as the ECU can monitor what is realy going on with the fuel mix. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 not when a lamba is £50 - £100 a lamba.. lol unsure the pure details of the failure but i know it was electrical and relating to the mega squirt.. but there again it was in the heat of the moment and could possibly be unrelated......... just after seeing the relatively standard 4.6 half way up the windscreen in water having little problems in the water only coughed alittle after it came out of the water due to the engine temperature dropping and the ecu thought it must be cold and through in more fuel it worked very very well.. so plan is to be able to be able to change this one part to over come it but my question on here has nothing to do with offroad to be honest it purely for the road so will not be a issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Problem with something like Megasquirt is that anyone can do it- and so the installation can be done to any standard. I guess that means that any failure has to be taken in that context. Not to say that Megasquirt can't fail- but from what i've read/heard it has been pretty much tested to destruction during development so that any numpty can get it working without releasing the magic smoke... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 not when a lamba is £50 - £100 a lamba.. lol:) Brand new, £13 for a 4-wire Bosch oxygen sensor, hardly breaks the bank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Brand new, £13 for a 4-wire Bosch oxygen sensor, hardly breaks the bank be nice to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Brand new, £13 for a 4-wire Bosch oxygen sensor, hardly breaks the bank That very much depends if it's Zirconia or Titania type. Zirconia is the most common and readily available as "universal" type for that sort of price, Titania are rarer and more expensive. Guess which one the RR uses Ref: MegaSquirt failure, if you don't understand what you're doing it's entirely possible to set it up so it will fail, just as it's possible to put the wrong fuel in your car. On the flipside, it's also possible to set it up to survive almost anything. I'm not aware of any failures that were not traceable to the person who built/installed/tuned it doing something wrong. It's entirely possible for a car running MS to stop in a puddle, not everyone uses it for ignition so the stock distributor may still be running the sparks. Equally I've seen people waterproof their engines and leave the ECU under the driver's seat and wonder why their car stopped in the middle of a pond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosecon Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 That very much depends if it's Zirconia or Titania type. Zirconia is the most common and readily available as "universal" type for that sort of price, Titania are rarer and more expensive. Guess which one the RR uses ;)Ref: MegaSquirt failure, if you don't understand what you're doing it's entirely possible to set it up so it will fail, just as it's possible to put the wrong fuel in your car. On the flipside, it's also possible to set it up to survive almost anything. I'm not aware of any failures that were not traceable to the person who built/installed/tuned it doing something wrong.It's entirely possible for a car running MS to stop in a puddle, not everyone uses it for ignition so the stock distributor may still be running the sparks. Equally I've seen people waterproof their engines and leave the ECU under the driver's seat and wonder why their car stopped in the middle of a pond Hi to everyone. Just one fast question. I want to make my carb v8 defender --> EFI and then megasquirt. Where would you install the ecu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Somewhere so that you'll drown before the ECU does - the roof or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Hi to everyone. Just one fast question. I want to make my carb v8 defender --> EFI and then megasquirt. Where would you install the ecu? Anywhere you wnat, just shove it in a decent water proof box Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Somewhere so that you'll drown before the ECU does - the roof or so. The roof is a bad place if you're using it seriously, roll your motor over in 3 inches of water and see what happens to your ECU ! Best to put it somewhere central around shoulder height and in a waterproof box, that way whatever way up your motor is the ECU is as far away from the ground as it can be As for survivability, the MS in mine has been there since 2002, it's run two different engines in that time, first the 3.9 and now the LS1. It's completed the Outback Challenge twice without missing a beat... and there's some SERIOUSLY deep water and harsh environments involved in that including sustained vibration and shock loading. On top of that it's taken part in most of the major challenge events in the UK at least once, many of them multiple times. As others have said, the only problems I've experienced with MS installations have been down to the way they were installed rather than the MS itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range Rover Blues Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 I replaced both Lambdas on my LSE and they cost about £60 each. My local motor factor oredered fuel parts ones after pricing up NTK ones which I'm told are NGKs trade brand? When I opened them guess what? NTK parts in rebranded boxs. As for the original question, the manual usually only has the "full" wiring diagram with lambdas fitted. If you don't have lambdas and the wiring is not inluded (some cars had the wiring taped up with no sensors) then ignore that part of the system. All wiring looms use the same colours with the exception of the 1988 looms fitted with the analogue (is that 14CU?) system that was non-diagnostic, analogue hot-wire and fitted to very late 3.5RRC/early 3.9. This makes the parts interchangeable. If you change the TSR (tune select resistor) to "tell" the ECU that you have lamdas then it will look for them at start up and within a few seconds of idle the ECU will modify the base-idle fuelling to match what it sees. This is the self-tuning feature of the 14CUX. If the TSR tells the ECU there are no lambdas it will ignore them even if fitted and the ECU follows the default fuel map all the time. The engine will not run without the MAF (unlike a closed loop, lambda equiped car). If no TSR is fitted it will default to the "with lamdas" map and run closed-loop. You may also notice in the manual that Lambda equiped cars run at 4deg BTDC whereas non-lambda cars ran 6 degrees if I remember correctly. Not sure if this is just to reflect that unleade fuel was only around 95 octane at the time (94 star was 98). As for locating the loom, it is more or less stand alone other than the 2 mulit plugs located int eh driver's footwell under the clutch. It connects to the fusebox for the fuel pump, it has one white and one blue plug. There are relays next to he ECY and all the sensor/injector plugs on the engine, plus one wire to the coil. This makes retro-fitting one fairly easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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