Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Les may well be right here - all scrap. I have had this in the past, one option is to remove the whole assemble and soak in Diesel, sometimes this can get into it and just help when you next "Twack" it. The other way I have got around this is to remove the flange, nuts and wasshers so you can see the outer race, then VERY CAREFULLY using a 1mm cutting disc cut a mark intio the race, preferably in the middle, so that there is race metal above and below the cut. Repeat in 2 other areas so you have 3 points of a triangle Then get a Centre punch, and drill out say a solid lump of rod 3/4 or 1inch with a hole so you can shove the centre punch up. Then you can now place the point of the centre punch into the cut and whack the thing, try to rotate it one way - then the other..the reason to have the punch in the tube is to give the assemble "Mass" and the ability for you to really be able to whack it missing delicate pinkies. Use a HEAVY hammer, dead blow or good heavy lump hammer etc, It might just move - once it does continue as above... Elase break out the "Henson Adjuster" Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco_Dunk Posted July 25, 2006 Author Share Posted July 25, 2006 Cheers guys...... gonna have a bash (literally) when I get home from work tonight - I'll let you all know how I get on, to give you a giggle (if I don't report back it's cos I've mashed all my fingers in the process) My plan of action is to start with the MIG approach as I've already got a puller wound up tight on it, so the application of heat might get it moving....... failing that I think a dremel on the edge of the race accompanied by a big hammer & chisel..... and finally it'll be remove the whole shebang and angle-grind it to within an inch of it's life, while still trying to salvage as much as possible It's gonna be an interesting evening - better have lots of 'milk of amnesia' to hand Dunk Les may well be right here - all scrap.I have had this in the past, one option is to remove the whole assemble and soak in Diesel, sometimes this can get into it and just help when you next "Twack" it. The other way I have got around this is to remove the flange, nuts and wasshers so you can see the outer race, then VERY CAREFULLY using a 1mm cutting disc cut a mark intio the race, preferably in the middle, so that there is race metal above and below the cut. Repeat in 2 other areas so you have 3 points of a triangle Then get a Centre punch, and drill out say a solid lump of rod 3/4 or 1inch with a hole so you can shove the centre punch up. Then you can now place the point of the centre punch into the cut and whack the thing, try to rotate it one way - then the other..the reason to have the punch in the tube is to give the assemble "Mass" and the ability for you to really be able to whack it missing delicate pinkies. Use a HEAVY hammer, dead blow or good heavy lump hammer etc, It might just move - once it does continue as above... Elase break out the "Henson Adjuster" Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco_Dunk Posted July 25, 2006 Author Share Posted July 25, 2006 Right....... just spent the last 3 hrs on it and I'm quitting for beer & food - progress update #1: Heating it with the MIG didn't budge it. It thought my dremel bits were very tasty as it chewed it's way through them - hitting it with a chisel (in all directions) didn't work either. In the end I've taken the swivel pins out (and the swivel housing oil seal) and taken the whole 'hub' assembly off the chrome ball. Now it's time for a beer or 3, then I'll have another bash tomorrow night......... my next plan, is to try to support the assembly under the lip of the hub (ie between the brake disk and the hub lip), then find some way of tw@tt1ng the end of the stub axle without mushing it, to try to drive the stub+swivel-housing downwards to separate them from the brake-disk+hub - I reckon I need the world's biggest copper-faced mallet!! Apologies for the gratuitous use of smilies but that illustrates the emotional roller-coaster ride that has been this evening!!! Dunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, angle grinder, Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 ^^^ wot he said sounds like its gonna take so much to shift it your gonna kill the rest anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Rather sounds like even if you do get it apart its scrap but you could try MIG PLUS cooling. We had a bu**ered drive flange on a large RR generator and seperated that in the end (after several days and differing appoaches) with hydraulic puller, gas axe to heat the flange and free flowing freon to cool the shaft. If you don't have freon just blow CO2 or even hose cold water down the inside of the stub axle while MIGing the bearing. Might just give you the temp differential you need to get it appart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 i've had this before, resign yourself to buying a new stub axle, yours will be damaged and it wont be of any use... don't ask me how i know this.... whole front axle assemblys can be found at a sensible price, someone on here was selling some for around £140 recently... if you went for that route you'd end up with loads of other spare parts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco_Dunk Posted July 26, 2006 Author Share Posted July 26, 2006 Well..... having slept on it (not literlly - it's too lumpy!)...... I think I'm probably gonna have to give Les his quid and take the grinder to it - might have a last ditch bash with a hammer now it's on the bench, but I'm not optimistic. As for cutting it, I'm thinking of cutting between the hub and the brake disk - I don't mind sacrificing the hub and the stub axle, but I'd like to preserve the brake disk and the swivel housing - mainly because losing the disk means I'll have to replace BOTH sides, and I don't think I can face stripping the other side just yet (though it IS on the cards before that side collapses too) Watch this space....... Dunk i've had this before, resign yourself to buying a new stub axle, yours will be damaged and it wont be of any use... don't ask me how i know this....whole front axle assemblys can be found at a sensible price, someone on here was selling some for around £140 recently... if you went for that route you'd end up with loads of other spare parts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 can you post a photo of what you are trying to remove? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Rather sounds like even if you do get it apart its scrap but you could try MIG PLUS cooling. We had a bu**ered drive flange on a large RR generator and seperated that in the end (after several days and differing appoaches) with hydraulic puller, gas axe to heat the flange and free flowing freon to cool the shaft. If you don't have freon just blow CO2 or even hose cold water down the inside of the stub axle while MIGing the bearing. Might just give you the temp differential you need to get it appart. Mmmm Water and Welder that sounds like lots of fun!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_a Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 What about attacking the bolts that hold the stub axle on from inside the hub assembly (pitman arm thingy), you might save the hub assembly and the hub and just lose the stub axle? If you have a dremel you could cut the excess of and then try drilling out the remains. sounds a carp job, but I think trying to save the pitman arm bit should be high on your list. A new hub is about £40, stub axle about £20 or something, I'm not sure how easy it will be to get a new pitman thingy... FRC4320 - stub axle FRC6139 - hub FTC3308 - swivel pin housing right hand FTC3309 - " " " left hand for reference, although there are quite a few varients on all those, but for pricing up it might be worthwhile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Now that you have the hub etc off, you may be able to take it to someone with oxy cutting gear. They should be able to cut the stubaxle and outer bearing off to enable you to remove the hub from what is left of the stub axle. That way you will only have to replace the stub axle (and bearings). If you have a 'big' arc welder, you can try cutting it yourself using some small rods. I have a 200 amp arc welder which if turned up to max, can be used for cutting if used with thin 1.6mm welding rods. It is very messy, will use a fair few rods and spits a fair bit of molten metal about, but might save the hub. Looks like you are getting closer and closer to cutting the whole lot up! Regards, Diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Good idea re- the oxy cutting Diff. Never thought of that one. I have oxy gear................................... Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco_Dunk Posted July 26, 2006 Author Share Posted July 26, 2006 Hmmmm....... oxy might be an option, but I think for sheer gratuitous satisfaction I might angle-grind it anyway..... "Take THAT ya frickin' Bar-Stool!!! Ha-HAAAAAA!!!!" I can order up a new stub-axle & hub from Paddocks and get it delivered in time for the weekend when I can re-build....... what's the story with the bronze bush in the stub axle (I know the Def stub has them, not sure about the Disco hub)........ is there a quick and easy way to press it in? wonder if I can reverse my hi-lift jack??? Good idea re- the oxy cutting Diff. Never thought of that one. I have oxy gear................................... Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonb Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 A 300tdI defender stub axle has got a roller bearing and a brass bush thingy IIRC. Just pressed mine in by hand (and suitable drift/vice etc) when I did it a few years ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 If its a 300tdi hub then I've got a second hand one arround the workshop you can have for £25. I had to buy the entire swivel assembly + shafts and CV + hub recently although I only needed the swivel housing. If you want it that's no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco_Dunk Posted July 26, 2006 Author Share Posted July 26, 2006 Will..... thanks for the offer - I really appreciate it, but I've just placed an order with Paddocks..... wish I'd read your post first!!! Never mind. Anyway....... here's the final update in this saga...... I managed to get the hub supported in my old workmate, and set about bashing seven bells out of the end of the stub axle to try to free the bearing (I figured if I'm gonna sacrifice it anyway, then why worry about mushing the end of it)....... Repeated battering with a large lump-hammer made absolutely no difference - this puppy was STUCK!. In the end, I resorted to the angle grinder and chopped the hub off the brake-disk....... only to find that it STILL wouldn't go over the frickin' bearing race - AAAARGH!!!!........ so now I hack straight down the side of the stub axle with the grinder (what the hell, I've already destroyed the hub, so another cut straight down ain't gonna make much difference)....... managed to chip off enough of the race to get the hub over it and then just un-bolt the stub from the swivel-housing. Finally! I took a couple of 'before and after' piccies with my phone - I'll post them tomorrow if they're any good. So..... in conclusion, a £10 bearing collapsing is now costing me the best part of £150!! (although that does include optional extras - I'm replacing the swivel pins & bearing while it's all in bits) The bearing race is still firmly stuck to the stub axle, even though a third of it has been chopped off - but I'm claiming victory. If I feel in the mood I might do some 'forensic investigation' on it sometime to find out just HOW badly it welded itself to the stub. Finally, a BIG thanks to everyone for your suggestions - I'll confess I didn't try them all - I just don't have the patience!!! Dunk PS - My other Disco has now developed a ticking sound coming from the front passenger's wheel (and in time with the wheel)..... checked it for stones, etc, with no sign...... I'm thinking maybe the CV joint is on it's way out (there's a squeaking too) - is ticking a tell-tale sign? Think I need a stiff drink If its a 300tdi hub then I've got a second hand one arround the workshop you can have for £25. I had to buy the entire swivel assembly + shafts and CV + hub recently although I only needed the swivel housing. If you want it that's no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco_Dunk Posted July 27, 2006 Author Share Posted July 27, 2006 Before: And After: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Now there's evidence of an angry man! Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 those bearings sure were running dry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco_Dunk Posted July 27, 2006 Author Share Posted July 27, 2006 Yeah, and if I ever see the previous owner again I'm gonna feed him the damn stub axle!!! those bearings sure were running dry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Yeah, and if I ever see the previous owner again I'm gonna feed him the damn stub axle!!! Big end first Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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