mmgemini Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Read this for coolant loss sensor http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=1712&highlight=coolant+loss+sensor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Mutley - I've got a spare set of blades in the garage. PM me if they are any use. Always thought these were good prices for the viscous hub: http://www.land-rover-parts-shop.com/en/ui/products.php?model=Defender (NOT NAS)&engine=2.5 Turbo Diesel&cattext=Cooling&subcattext=Fan and Fan Drive&group=Fan Drive&year=1989 (they are for my 1989 110, so check that they fit yours). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 Thanks for the info guys and reb78 thanks for the offer i will find out in the next few days and let you know one way or the other. So is it that simple, just put the fan and cowl back? is that all there is to it? no other parts required, no electrics to fiddle with? Cheers Mutley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litch Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 No electrics. Viscous fan set-up is self contained and as already stated consists of the hub, blades & radiator cowel, could take as long as 10-minutes to fit it! Really simple and reliable system, if the viscous unit siezes up then just replace it with a new one but they are dead cheap. They are normally very reliable, the original one on my 300TDi is still functioning fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGM316 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 No electrics. Viscous fan set-up is self contained and as already stated consists of the hub, blades & radiator cowel, could take as long as 10-minutes to fit it! Really simple and reliable system, if the viscous unit siezes up then just replace it with a new one but they are dead cheap. They are normally very reliable, the original one on my 300TDi is still functioning fine. I had been planning to fit an electric fan, Kenlowe quote an 8.5% increase in power which sounds tempting. But the viscous ones do sound easier to fit, how do they compare performancewise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I had been planning to fit an electric fan, Kenlowe quote an 8.5% increase in power which sounds tempting. But the viscous ones do sound easier to fit, how do they compare performancewise? On a cold UK morning. Stand in front of your Defender as soon as you've started it up. Feel the viscous fan working away, According to the viscous blurb it shouldn't be, fell how the fan is pulling the cold air through the radiator. Then think wind chill. Now do the same thing with a Defender fitted with an electric fan. Don't believe everything you read about power gains........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGM316 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 On a cold UK morning. Stand in front of your Defender as soon as you've started it up. Feel the viscous fan working away, According to the viscous blurb it shouldn't be, fell how the fan is pulling the cold air through the radiator. Then think wind chill. Now do the same thing with a Defender fitted with an electric fan. Don't believe everything you read about power gains........... Thanks, back to electric fan then! I thought 8.5% extra power would really be on the top side, but even half that would be worth it. Like you said, the main thing is in winter and avoiding it keeping the engine at sub zero tempertures. Question is whether I fit it myself or ask a garage to.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Hmm fans.... I was suprised last winter I did some experimentation as i couldn't get the eng temp gauge up warm enough to give me any hot air during the deep freeze, so I played about with muffs and lack of fans etc... and I found that my engine after a bit of a work out in minus temperatures got a bit hot, so I've always kept the viscous unit on, they're not expensive and I've got a BP one on at the moment and its been fine, i was impressed with the manufactured quality of it. I've got a ford modeo fan all fitted up, but not got around to wireing it in yet. the plan is to get it installed and see how the engine temperature managment works over this winter season. - I'll still keep the fan and the space clear of where it goes, just in case I go somewhere and she starts to get hot, i can fit that up too to give me a bit more suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyboy Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 If you are willing to take the risk of cooking your engine then don't bother with a fan, it left the factory with one so it should have one otherwise you are taking a risk regardless of what you hear from people who say that they don't need one. If you don't have one then you will have to hope that your gauge is accurate and that you keep your eyes glued to it. Don't forget that you can cook an engine even in sub-zero temperatures (snow blocking the rad etc), I know this because I have done it and I also had a fan fitted at the time!. Yes, but nothing will work then, fan or no fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS_Bond Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Read this for coolant loss sensor http://forum.diffloc...ant+loss+sensor An interesting read, thank you. Point taken on the rad being too low... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Go with the viscous , they are the most reliable and efficient , yes you will get a slight air flow on start up but they soon unlock and free wheel . Its the thermostat that keeps the engine hot , and the fan that cools the rad so that there is cool water there for when the thermostat opens . There are less potential fail points with a viscous than with a lecky system. The fan only is really needed at low forward speeds , as ram air does the work the rest of the time . JMHE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 Viscous fan it is then , as the electric fan is gunna involve electric = wires = head ache (for me at least). Plus 10 min job to fit (so will allow half a day) has to be good? As there seems to be a few that seize up over time is it worth greasing/oiling any part or is that not the done thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Go with the viscous , they are the most reliable and efficient , yes you will get a slight air flow on start up but they soon unlock and free wheel . Its the thermostat that keeps the engine hot , and the fan that cools the rad so that there is cool water there for when the thermostat opens . There are less potential fail points with a viscous than with a lecky system. The fan only is really needed at low forward speeds , as ram air does the work the rest of the time . JMHE Really. I've yet to see a viscous fan work the way anybody on here has described. You may as well do the job proper. Sling the viscous. Sling the electric. Fit a fixed fan. That's the way I've seen every viscous fan work There's one lying on my garage floor somewhere. There's one on the spare enging block I have. Both free to colection only. If either will actually work. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Mike, If a viscous fan is working properly you should be able to start the engine from cold and then stop the fan blades spinning with a rolled up newspaper or similar. When the engine is hot, the unit will lock up and it will shred the newspaper into bits! I've seen viscous fans exhibiting this behaviour, as well as ones that had seized on so the newspaper got shredded immediately after a cold start. Obviously since there is some movement at cold with the viscous setup there will be some airflow, and this will impart an extra cooling effect to the engine block, resulting in a slightly longer warm up time than a system with no artificial airflow at cold (ie. electric). However this negative effect is (in my opinion) negated by the fact that a viscous at full chat will shift far more air far more efficiently than any electric fan could. Plus it is a fail safe system, it is more likely to over-cool the engine if it fails, whereas if an electric fan fails and you're working the vehicle hard it is liable to overheat. An electric fan does give the benefit of very easy access to the front of the engine though, which is no bad thing, and you can get to the back of the rad to clean it without removing the fan/cowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Viscous fan it is then , as the electric fan is gunna involve electric = wires = head ache (for me at least). Plus 10 min job to fit (so will allow half a day) has to be good? As there seems to be a few that seize up over time is it worth greasing/oiling any part or is that not the done thing? slap a heap of greese on the mounting thread and just spin it on by hand until its tight, then just leave it, i don't do any nipping up with spanner etc. if any tighter you'll have a pain in the neck time getting it off again. the left handed thread will keep it on just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 slap a heap of greese on the mounting thread and just spin it on by hand until its tight, then just leave it, i don't do any nipping up with spanner etc. if any tighter you'll have a pain in the neck time getting it off again. the left handed thread will keep it on just fine. I still nip it up, although the running engine tightens it there is still some spinning mass when you stop/stall the engine that could cause the fan to undo. The original poster has a 300 Tdi so unlike the 200Tdi the fan is much closer to the radiator and if it came off it could be messy.... JMHO The 300 tdi radiator cowl needs to be put on before the fan and also requires the removal of a couple of pipes. It is possible to put a cut in the bottom of the cowl that allows you to fold the cowl in on itself so you cam fit and remove it without removing pipes..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 James. In a word NO. They don't in practice work like that. When we were sitting at the workshop of Johan Straus some 60km South of Keetmanshoop changing the turbo. Joham looked my Defender over. Pointing to the silicon hoses, the raised intake, then the electric fan. Saying all these things were goog. Now it was a cool day at 40Deg C then, so I said that I'de been told that electric fanns didn't work over there. He pointed to a pile of viscous fans with broken blades. That's what we get. Then the rad goes. So I pointed out that I'd been told that leccy fans didn't work at speed. WHAT'S WRONG WITH SLOWING DOWN ? was his reply. Now to go to someting else. When I was being taught to drive, AEC, Bristol and Gardiner engines in the late 1950's. I was instructed not to drive with an ideling engine, nor was I to drive up a bank at full throttle, I was to feather the throttle and let the engine rev feely. That's what you need to do to keep the EGT down. Then no fan is needed. I've also delivered a series two 88 on a trailer at 34 DEg C in this country. The Range Rover didn't have a fan fitted. Most of the electric fans I've seen fitted as extras or to awap from a viscous were not correctly fitted. That is where most of the problems arise. Notice I give ambient temperatures where known. Viscous fans don't half go through a radiator matrix when they do their other trick. Seizing of the viscous coupling, then unscrewing themselves. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 Ok i know im simple, but having NOT got a fan and only going off photos there doesn't seem to be much in the way of moving parts, and if i'm correct it just threads on to the block, which spins regardless to the fan being attached or not when needed to! So what part of this seizes up then that seems to cause all the fuss and why can't it be maintained ie. oiled/greased? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Ok i know im simple, but having NOT got a fan and only going off photos there doesn't seem to be much in the way of moving parts, and if i'm correct it just threads on to the block, which spins regardless to the fan being attached or not when needed to! So what part of this seizes up then that seems to cause all the fuss and why can't it be maintained ie. oiled/greased? The siezing people are talking about is in the viscous unit itself, it just wears out I guess, nothing to be done about it, the viscous center unit just has to be viewed as a consumable, like a timeing belt etc. needs checking/changeing out every so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Fair enough Mike, I bow to your greater experience. I would ask though if other vehicles fitted with viscous fans suffer the same problem, and is it common to fit an electric fan to those in remedy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doda456 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Just to throw my view into the ring, My current set up is a 200tdi disco, recent genuine thermostat and an aftermarket, temperature gauge, The temperature gauge gives me a nice reading in degress Celsuis to the coolant temp and as such, I can decide what to do, either pull over and fit the viscous fan i keep in the boot, or turn the blower fans on at low mph to just just lower the temp slightly. Ive ran it like this for 2 years and havent yet needed to refit the viscous yet, but the driving i do is mainly just greenlaning, pay and plays and travelling between the two. But it does make it soo nice to work on the engine bay with the fan and cowl removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Just to throw my view into the ring, My current set up is a 200tdi disco, recent genuine thermostat and an aftermarket, temperature gauge, The temperature gauge gives me a nice reading in degress Celsuis to the coolant temp and as such, I can decide what to do, either pull over and fit the viscous fan i keep in the boot, or turn the blower fans on at low mph to just just lower the temp slightly. Ive ran it like this for 2 years and havent yet needed to refit the viscous yet, but the driving i do is mainly just greenlaning, pay and plays and travelling between the two. But it does make it soo nice to work on the engine bay with the fan and cowl removed So very true. Just like I do and suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyboy Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Plus it is a fail safe system, James, I've also known them to fail unsafely, ie. they don't lock up at all, even when hot! Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I've had both, on a 2.5nad. Prefered the leccy for the warm up times in the winter and a slight drop in fuel usage in the summer. 2 fan setup and no intercooler, revotech inline switch from holden and a 40A, relay simples. However with a 300 tdi in I haven't refitted the leccy yet as I'm trying to work out how the intercooler needs to be dealt with. So the viscous remains with the cowl as it does it's thing. I would like anyones views about the leccy fans on the intercooler portion though. Or will it follow that if the engine cooling system is warm so is the egt? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Pete. I haven't bothered with a fan on the intercooler. Just on the rad. Not noticed any drop in power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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