Yet another Ebay bargain.........

[crowmann]

Please discuss paying close attention to the age and specification.

Points will be awarded for knowledge of Defender production changes, colour charts and an awarenes of the rate of disappearance of Defenders and their subsequent uses.

Your time starts now.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320810131598

[19MART82]

either 1 hell of a rebuild or 1 very original 300tdi,personally i would say the 2nd option as the attention to detail is second to none!

[disco_al]

doors & door cards don't match the age, neither does the front rh wing with the snorkel on. it's got a disc rear axle as well (from what i can see) thus the wheels are wrong, and also the steering wheel is wrong for the age. engine is wrong as well, but then it's all bolt to gether stuff anyway, so could be a legit build up of newer parts

[V8CAMEL]

not a defender its a landrover 90

[Mutley]

• "only 40,000 miles on replacement 300 TDI engine"
  
• 
  
• Having acquired it, with it already done 130k
  

[crowmann]

Top marks for those who spotted its a late 90's Defender with all the usual atributes, later dash, headlining, axle, dash, doors, wings etc.

Could have been rebuilt but its highly likely to have been modded in the process, it appears to me to have been changed only slightly from a 94 on Defender and would get you pulled over in Derbyshire pretty quickly I would have thought?

This is how some of beloved Defenders come back from the after life and yes someone will buy it at the right price.

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Lets see. Take a 1986 ninety and change just about every single component to very high standard and then sell at a loss. Or acquire a late 300 tdi defender and stick the plates and V5C off a scrapper on it and sell for a profit. Now which one sounds easier?

[Maverik]

Fuel filler cap is the old stylee by the looks of it plus ist got the "hinged" windscreen hinges too. - to be honest guys, when I get mine painted up it will resemble something like this truck as it is an 86, which has had pretty much everything changed out that gives it away to the passer by... although mine will always says landrover 90 on the front, don't like these fancy "defenders".

[CwazyWabbit]

Wasn't the locking bonnet only on early defenders or prior to defenders? Looks like there is a key barrel in the grill....

[mickeyw]

OK, <anorak mode>...

Have to agree with Mav ^^^, with a paint job mine could look that good too

The reg is 1986, the radiator slam panel with key lock is correct for 1986,

Push button doors are wrong for C reg, but then how many rotten doors get replaced by newer ones in better nick?

The rear tub has rope cleats around the edge, OK it could've come from a PU, but my own 1986 hard top has these cleats. The early large fuel filler cap without a lock is correct for age too.

The vents in the rear face of the roof panel are circa E, F & G reg, def not as early as C reg. When did smooth roofs start? Thought it was a bit later than 1990. Sun roof and half headlining are about right for E,F, G reg.

The hard top sides are pre smooth roof. Note the horizontal stiffener strip, my 1986 has this. Later models had a vertical strip half way along the panel.

The paint is Epsom Green me thinks, well anyone can respray a truck any colour they like. Interestingly the inside of the hard top has been sprayed, but not the seat box. Seat box colour I'm unsure of, but looks correct for a 300tdi period, perhaps the seat box was swapped if the 300 had an R380 fitted with it.

Steering wheel is from a later truck. AFAIK that would require a later steering column to match.

Dash gauges look like early ones, although the binacle is Td5 with backlit heater controls.

Rear x-member is correct for 1986 with the towing socket having its own recess. Sure that had been deleted by 300 Tdi era.

Disc brake rear axle - well I have fitted one of these too

Defender badge, like Maverik says, should say Landrover 90 for a C plate.

At the end of the day, Defenders are so easy to mix n match parts. Many of us replace broken/worn out components with whatever we can get hold of, not giving a hoot for authenticity, or perhaps we want to upgrade something (eg. disc brakes).

I mean a 25 year old Landrover with all original parts would be a very rare find indeed!

Unfortunately this just makes it that much harder to spot one built up from stolen parts

I realise the theft issues make it very eay to be suspicious, but I wouldn't write this truck off without having a good look at it first.

I'd check things like whether the log book agrees with the engines number, the owners name and address (beware of I'm selling for a mate). Is the vendor happy for you to look it over , and at his home address? There's plenty can be done to provide yourself some degree of confidence in the truck's integrity.

Or you could just throw caution to the wall and snap it up with his BuyItNow

</anorak mode>

[GBMUD]

not a defender its a landrover 90

Not a 'Ninety'?

doors & door cards don't match the age, neither does the front rh wing with the snorkel on. it's got a disc rear axle as well (from what i can see) thus the wheels are wrong, and also the steering wheel is wrong for the age. engine is wrong as well, but then it's all bolt to gether stuff anyway, so could be a legit build up of newer parts

Top marks for those who spotted its a late 90's Defender with all the usual atributes, later dash, headlining, axle, dash, doors, wings etc.

Could have been rebuilt but its highly likely to have been modded in the process, it appears to me to have been changed only slightly from a 94 on Defender and would get you pulled over in Derbyshire pretty quickly I would have thought?

This is how some of beloved Defenders come back from the after life and yes someone will buy it at the right price.

My current 90 must be nicked then? It is a 1987, has had new doors, a new seat, a different steering wheel, different axles front and rear, wrong steering box, Discovery engine and gearbox, newer wheels etc...

No, it has just been updated with available components, mostly from a known donor Discovery Tdi which was an insurance write-off.

Rear x-member is correct for 1986 with the towing socket having its own recess. Sure that had been deleted by 300 Tdi era.

My 2004 110 has the same setup. I am pretty sure it is legit and not a mid 80s model made to look newer...

I think that we should all be very careful about buying cars generally, Landrovers especially, and check all the numbers match and that we get a good 'feeling' about the owner. If you are not sure, walk away or even call the cops if you have good reasons for suspicion. But we need to remember that Defenders are very often repaired or upgraded using later or different parts and some people even spend ages doing up their pride and joy only to have to sell when circumstances change unexpectedly, that, in itself, is not a reason for great suspicion.

Chris

[19MART82]

i agree with all thats been said and yes most landrover owners includeing myself are allways fixing/doing there landrovers up,adding new/later parts can give your defender a new lease of life and make it look more modern,if the 90 in question has been done up then fair play to the owner he's done a great job,but the police here in derbyshire would definatly confiscate that landy and take it to ripley for further investigation if he got stopped, and he would have a lot of questions to answer before/if he got it back as due to the high no. of l/r thefts in this area the police are getting very clued up on the defenders and stopping us all the time,as a result everyone i know round here with defenders wont buy anything for it without reciepts or unless there 100% sure its legit,im not saying its wrong to buy new/later parts but at least get reciepts then if the police or anyone stop you you have a paper trail to account for everything and believe me it can save you a lot of hassle and worry

[mickeyw]

Yes, 'Landrover 90', not 'Ninety'. Can't remember if the 'Ninety' and 'One Ten' badges are earlier or later...

My 2004 110 has the same setup. I am pretty sure it is legit and not a mid 80s model made to look newer...

Ah your 2004Td5 X member, apart from being made from 2CV bodywork, is quite different in design.

Early 90/110s had the tow socket recess, which was deleted on later chassis, definitely by 1997 (we had a '97 110 CSW) but likely earlier. Td5s then reintroduced this aperture, but ironically I've yet to see a towing socket located in there, probably because it's complete a45e to get to the wiring with the rear mounted fuel tank in the way. Our 2006 110 has the light socket factory fitted to a flimsy bracket beneath the x-member, even though the recess is there.

I agree with what Chris says though,

My own 1986 truck has a 300tdi rear axle,

V8 from a '95 Disco

Transmission from a '92 Rangey...

Car enthusiasts are a nightmare for modding vehicles, it's not just limited to Landrovers, although they are a lot easier to play about with

[rusty_wingnut]

it looks likes a TD5 replacment crossmember.

I guess the vehicle has been rebuilt using bits from a dead 300.

[GBMUD]

I've yet to see a towing socket located in there, probably because it's complete a45e to get to the wiring with the rear mounted fuel tank in the way. Our 2006 110 has the light socket factory fitted to a flimsy bracket beneath the x-member, even though the recess is there.

Then feast your eyes!

Getting the wiring in was easy enough; though I cannot remember actually doing it, it must have been easy or I would remember. I did it when the original towing loom turned to 'black' metal and started to disintegrate and become unreliable. I fitted a bit of 7 core wire with the correct colours into the original towing loom plug and fitted a new socket filled with electrical grease. Until then I had a similar sounding, and quite unsatisfactory bracket as you describe. I have not looked back.

Chris

[landy V8]

i agree with all thats been said and yes most landrover owners includeing myself are allways fixing/doing there landrovers up,adding new/later parts can give your defender a new lease of life and make it look more modern,if the 90 in question has been done up then fair play to the owner he's done a great job,but the police here in derbyshire would definatly confiscate that landy and take it to ripley for further investigation if he got stopped, and he would have a lot of questions to answer before/if he got it back as due to the high no. of l/r thefts in this area the police are getting very clued up on the defenders and stopping us all the time,as a result everyone i know round here with defenders wont buy anything for it without reciepts or unless there 100% sure its legit,im not saying its wrong to buy new/later parts but at least get reciepts then if the police or anyone stop you you have a paper trail to account for everything and believe me it can save you a lot of hassle and worry

does that mean anybody driving through Derbyshire is going to get stoppped in a Def,i think not.

Unless i'm missing the blatantley obvious on this truck what is the problem with it.It's been modified and updated like nearly all Defenders.

[yalan]

Unless i'm missing the blatantley obvious on this truck what is the problem with it.It's been modified and updated like nearly all Defenders.

I agree. Hope mine looks that good when I'm finished.

Just deciding now whether to a) fix original doors b) buy later defender doors c) buy series III doors.

Didn't realise that making the wrong decision here would have me immediately pulled over and my vehicle confiscated.......

[muddy]

Its not a TD5 X member as it has the welded body tabs, early td5 have the x member support rail tabs on the outside later td5s have them on the inside. Also it appears to have the tailgate hinge brackets welded on wich fits with 'c' reg.

I 'think' the wings are td5 as the side repeaters are td5 however the plastic surrounds dont have the vents in so might be different skins or the vents have been flattened.

Bulkhead has the correct early 'twin' washers

Appears to have an R380 unless my squinting is broken

Doesnt look like it has wheel spacers so the front axle must be 24spline too, a quick check of the handbrake cable would denote the rest of the drivetrain origan.

Also argee with other differencs pointed out (binicle roof, roof vents etc)

C plate 90 pickup with 300 running gear and seatbox, 88' ish roof, sides and back door? td5 wings/wing skins and binicle.

Judgeing by the orig bulkhead and chassis condition it could be a well looked after and neatly upgraded pride and joy or lots of bits of pride and joy as has been said.

Will.

[Litch]

Doesn't look very special to me, the paintwork may be a later colour and there are several later parts plus the engine but it but look at the detail and there are plenty of early features while the vehicle is actually quite tatty around the edges.

Going on the assumption that spening money on an early vehicle makes it a ringer then I should expect a call from the rozzers any day now!

My own 1986 90 is in far better condition and is 300TDi spec although it started life as an ex-MOD 2.5NA D hardtop (bought direct by me 12-years ago). A brand-new body & bulkhead (only original component is the seatbox), 300TDI re-power kit (inc R380 etc) from LR parts, disc-braked rear axle, new Exmoor Trim seats & trim, alloys etc etc and you would be hard pushed to date it as its condition is better than most 300TDi's and plenty of TD5's yet I have a file of reciepts as thick as a telephone directory and dozens of photos showing the work as it was carried out over the years. Even things like intermitant wipers have been added using standard LR parts, small details that really add to the finished product.

[BIG DAN T]

Landy V8. Derbyshire police are now VERY clued up when it comes to Landrovers and stop them all the time ( I'm just about on first name terms with most of them now I have been stopped so many times!) So if it looks a little bit wrong they will pull it, take it to Ripley and go through all the numbers. I was told by one of the traffic cops that he had been on a course and told what to look out for eg air intakes on what side for year, puma bonnets,push button handles ect.They have also as a byproduct of this drasticaly cut the number of "hybrids" in Derbyshire as if they can't see leaf springs they pull it and impound it.

[19MART82]

does that mean anybody driving through Derbyshire is going to get stoppped in a Def,i think not.

Unless i'm missing the blatantley obvious on this truck what is the problem with it.It's been modified and updated like nearly all Defenders.

Im not saying all defenders will be stopped im just sayeing we get pulled over more than most,and as has allready been said the police round here have been sent on courses ect to reckonise the different age defenders,if something doesnt look right for the year they will look further and if its had new axles,doors etc etc you will have to prove there legit and not stolen,thats where reciepts come in,im just sayeing it will save you a lot of hassle and possibly save you the hassle of your landy being confiscated while they investigate further as has happened to a couple of my mates and many others in derbyshire,the 90 in question could be genuine and made up genuine bought parts,then again it could be a ringer or made up of stolen parts,im just sayeing people need to be 100% sure when they hand there money over

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Seems to be a Derbyshire police tactic. I remember 20 years ago driving round the Peaks in a hired minibus (uni caving trip) and being stopped by them. Why? There had been some burglaries and all they had to go on was that a white van was involved so they were stopping them all!

[CwazyWabbit]

Im not saying all defenders will be stopped im just sayeing we get pulled over more than most,and as has allready been said the police round here have been sent on courses ect to reckonise the different age defenders,if something doesnt look right for the year they will look further and if its had new axles,doors etc etc you will have to prove there legit and not stolen,thats where reciepts come in,im just sayeing it will save you a lot of hassle and possibly save you the hassle of your landy being confiscated while they investigate further as has happened to a couple of my mates and many others in derbyshire,the 90 in question could be genuine and made up genuine bought parts,then again it could be a ringer or made up of stolen parts,im just sayeing people need to be 100% sure when they hand there money over

Good advice for anyone traveling through the area

Although it does make you wonder what happens if you have a Defender that has a mixture of body panel ages and no supporting paperwork for those panels (maybe from a previous owner replacing them). If the police stop you, unless they can prove they are stolen (how can they prove it) surely you are allowed back on your way.... albeit after a massive delay.... are we talking hours, days, or weeks?

[mickeyw]

Although it does make you wonder what happens if you have a Defender that has a mixture of body panel ages and no supporting paperwork for those panels (maybe from a previous owner replacing them).

Or anything you brought at an auto jumble, most unlikely to have any paperwork in that situation. At least stuff bought on ebay can be traced through your purchase history

[UdderlyOffroad]

Did MickeyW set up this course for Derbyshire Constabulary? ;-)

Seriously though, nice to see some front-line education and pro-active policing for a change – I have friends who work for Avon and Somerset who would I’m sure be very glad to receive that kind of training, rather than endless ‘Diversity Awareness courses’ (They don’t care what race or religion thieving scum are, they will treat them with equal contempt).

Anyway, I suspect a lot of people on here don’t give a fiddler’s frat about authenticity – myself included Part of the very appeal of a 90/110/Defender is that they are giant mecanno sets that can have later parts/upgrades bolted on without recourse to major fiddling.

If my truck ever gets finished, it will be a real mess of different bits, hopefully all the body panels will be vaguely matched in colour – and it will be unique to me. I don’t plan on selling it, but if I ever do, I hope I might break even with current Defender prices, but I probably won’t. But whoever buys it will be aware that they are not getting a base-spec vehicle.

If you want a legitimate, custom-build on the basis of a ‘correct’ aged Defender, there are plenty of companies around that will do it for you. Just be prepared to spend £25k+ doing it! Or, buy a £1k project/shed and do it yourself.

Oh yes, and Derbyshire police are very welcome to read my build thread and wade through my boxof receipts for stuff, but not at the roadside – they can follow me home ;-)