The "pass the bucket" crazy/dumb/idiot ideas/LR creations

[o_teunico]

Beeing legal is best. The problem is that it´s very difficult for the engineer to say "OK" and "how much" to a vapour build. The problem with real builds is that, once made, it could be impossible to make them road legal. Work and money wasted.

The guy with the BMW pick-up recived the following answer:

Have you completed the project?

If you have not started it it´s best not starting it in any case.
It´s quite provable that you will end with a fantastic car that you will not be able to drive...

When he contacted the engineering company the project was completed at 90% and he ended by building a crash test proto with a second car. He is now waiting for a quotation for the crash test.

I´m still waiting for a response about chassis end chopping.

And yeah it's only money but it is not exactly pocket change, that is half my monthly wage my friend

That´s 90% of my monthly unemployment aid

[o_teunico]

Have been thinking this days about rear bumper...it will be senseless to build a reworked rear bumper when I´m sure that I want to retain the tow pack. Unless I´m allowed to fit a US spec detachable type one, rear bumper will maintain original shape, but will be HD and with some side rock sliders. Don´t want to end like this...

Standard tow pack vs US spec one

[o_teunico]

IMHO both this vehicles have excesively big tyres, too much lift...and too many horns!

35s seem to be the correct size: small enough for road use and big enough for off road.

This ones look good with that fender trimming.

[FridgeFreezer]

The monster Disco got a lot of love on Pirate4x4, it was hilarious.

I'm still confused by the seemingly drastic modifications you are happy to do (legally or otherwise) versus the minor ones (EG using RR roof panel) which you won't do. Any chance you could summarise the rules?

[o_teunico]

Rules are simple. Regulations say that standard roof cannot be moddified, unless a crash test is made for seeing that it wil maintain structural rigidity.

Full body swap is OK, because you use a body that has been crash tested in it´s original form.

Back in 2009 full glass roofs, pick-ups and cabrios were allowed, but not now...

Back in 2011 homemade winch bumpers were OK. Strange with all those pedestrian friendly rules.

Homemade body lifts and suspension coil chopping was also OK.

[o_teunico]

Saloon car body doing offroad

[FridgeFreezer]

Rules are simple. Regulations say that standard roof cannot be moddified, unless a crash test is made for seeing that it wil maintain structural rigidity.

Full body swap is OK, because you use a body that has been crash tested in it´s original form.

OK, bolting a RR roof to your bodyshell is not "modified" because the shell is the same thing on RR/Disco, it's just different aluminium body panels. So you're bolting an unmodified RR roof to a standard RR/Disco body-shell.

The body is not structural as it has a separate chassis and is soft-mounted to it, unlike a normal monocoque car where the roof and even the windscreen are a big part of the rigidity.

[simonr]

Here's a sketch of my IVA avoiding idea:

You start with a Suzuki Carry or similar and make the equivalent of a pallet which clamps to the bed. The pallet has the four off road wheels on swinging arms (which overlap the sides of the bed).

Off road, you deploy the outer wheels which lift the original wheels clear of the ground. On the road, it's just a Suzuki Carry, carrying some metalwork & tyres.

When you want to go shopping, you un-clamp the pallet and use the outer wheels to lift the pallet off the bed - and drive the truck out from underneath.

Drive to the outer wheels via a hydraulic PTO on the crank shaft. Steering is closed loop hydraulic where the movement of the original wheels moves one ram, connected to a another ram on the outer wheel. Turn steering wheel and the outer wheel will move with the inner.

PTO and steering connect via 6 no loss hydraulic connectors on the bed.

Outer wheel suspension is via a high pressure reservoir on each of the lift rams - so you use the lift hydraulics for springs & dampers.

It would be a challenge to build it within the max payload of the truck - but not impossible.

An approach like this could completely avoid any legal, IVA or otherwise issues.

Si

[Nigelw]

OK, bolting a RR roof to your bodyshell is not "modified" because the shell is the same thing on RR/Disco, it's just different aluminium body panels. So you're bolting an unmodified RR roof to a standard RR/Disco body-shell.

The body is not structural as it has a separate chassis and is soft-mounted to it, unlike a normal monocoque car where the roof and even the windscreen are a big part of the rigidity.

One of the biggest problems FF is that the people who make the rules for the bigger rock of main land Europe have no interest in making things easier and all too often they have no idea of the impact of the rules they are making, I kind of see it this way, the rule makers have to justify their jobs and need to keep making new rules to keep themselves in work, so they sit around in a very metro sexual wine bar with a few other friends and then think up new ideas and just because after a bottle of pinot grigio the idea sounds good they jot it down on a napkin, get it drafted up by the legal team and hey presto another bonkers rule for the rest of us to follow.

I have some very strange boundaries to stay within in my county but getting even worse here unless you drive a brand new euro box and change it every three years, there is very little they will allow you to do to your own car to personalize it for your own needs/ desires/employments.

[FridgeFreezer]

I'm not arguing with the rules, I'm arguing that the change does not fall inside the rules. They say you can't modify the roof, I'm saying that the roof would not be modified. It comes down to definitions, not a great place to be but you can sometimes play the suits at their own game.

If your Disco wheel bearing is the same part as the RR one, is it a modification to fit a RR one?

[cackshifter]

That's a very jaded view useful insight into how our esteemed law makers in Brussels manage to get through their day, and managing to support the wine and napkin industries as well. It seems to be the same everywhere, though, certainly in northern Europe. Once you get south, the rules still exist but no-one seems to worry about them.

[o_teunico]

It comes down to definitions, not a great place to be but you can sometimes play the suits at their own game.

Unfortunately if you want fight them you will have to go to the court and waste 100 times the money you were going to spend in the project to pay lawyers...

What I will make, in the case of needing the RR roof, will be a roof + rear tub swap, and then say that it is a FULL RR body with just some Disco front wings (or fit some RR wings and bonnet if they say it must be a complete body).

As I said, with an exocage + roof rack there will be no height reduction. If I´m not allowed to make an height adjustable suspension setup, only way I see is getting a full RR body swap approval with some windscreen side bars running along all the roof guttter. Then, after having that on vehicle´s paperwork, I will channel the roof and fit some crossmembers to join those gutter bars. Of course the initial MoT test for getting the approval and the forthcoming yearly basis test should be taken at different MoT stations. If someone asks about that roof bars I will say "see paperwok, it says that I have windscreen and roof bars apprroved". A second internal hoop will be added in the load bay, but as a dog/cargo mesh. If it´s approved as a roll bar I will need a helmet for driving it!

.

In fact, this design will work in any pick-up or ute Landy. Interesting...

[Retroanaconda]

If you're going to swap a RR body on why not just buy a Range Rover in the first place?

What was the reason for actually needing a lower vehicle again? Can't you just park somewhere else?

[elbekko]

There's always the option of just doing the mods and saying F off to the government, as many do...

[muddy]

What if you have very supple springs and add some rubber rollers or tyres to the disco roof so you slowly drive under the height restrictions and the tyres roll on the ceiling and compress the suspension down to the required height, simply popping back up afterwards.

[simonr]

Muddy, that's an inspired solution!

Si

[o_teunico]

There's always the option of just doing the mods and saying F off to the government, as many do...

When I was a teenager with a Series IIIA Santana the rules was the norm. Before every MoT test we were forced to change tyres from illegal (for the 88") 7.50R16 to stock 6.00, remove home made roll cage, remove headrests from Lancia Delta-Recaro seats and hide the rest of them with an old blanket and pray to the Land Rover God because if MoT tester noticed the Series II body swap or suspension mods we will have serious problems. The simple sight of a Road Patrol Police vehicle led to pants accident...

Now I´m looking for something that will be adecuate for my needs while giving peace of mind.

What if you have very supple springs and add some rubber rollers or tyres to the disco roof so you slowly drive under the height restrictions and the tyres roll on the ceiling and compress the suspension down to the required height, simply popping back up afterwards.

Very good solution! Unfortunatey the lighting used on tunnel´s roof will not be Land Rover proof...

If you're going to swap a RR body on why not just buy a Range Rover in the first place?

200kg less for cargo, troublesome BOGE self-levelling strut, Borg-Warner instead of trusty LT230, difficult to obtain with 200 Tdi engine, higher price on the secondhand market...Apart from the above, regulations ask for track width increase when lifting the car. A Disco is taller. If you lower it with body swap then you will be able to lift again with suspension/tyres without the need of extra track width.

[o_teunico]

What was the reason for actually needing a lower vehicle again? Can't you just park somewhere else?

Calzada da Ponte, a street I use nearly everyday. Could avoid it, but alternative route is twice the length.

As seen in local newspaper "El Progreso"

South entry

North one

You will not find any google maps picture from the street´s track between south and north bridges. Just ask why...

[CwazyWabbit]

...

200kg less for cargo, troublesome BOGE self-levelling strut, Borg-Warner instead of trusty LT230, difficult to obtain with 200 Tdi engine, higher price on the secondhand market...Apart from the above, regulations ask for track width increase when lifting the car. A Disco is taller. If you lower it with body swap then you will be able to lift again with suspension/tyres without the need of extra track width.

I believe Mr Fridge was asking why not put a RR body onto your Disco chassis, as opposed to just getting an RR

[o_teunico]

It will be cheaper to buy just rear tub + roof than a complete body, but I will prefer the roomy Disco body with height adjustable suspension, if I´m allowed to do that.

[simonr]

If it's just a case of lowering the vehicle for tunnels, what about the same trick the Americans use (to lower the suspension for hill climbs etc).

Connect the cable from a small ATV winch to the middle of each axle. Winch in, suspension is squashed. Winch out - back to normal.

I prototyped just such a thing on a 90 with a beam which sits on top of the chassis rails at the back, just clamped in place - so no legal issues. Winch bolted to middle and a cable connected via a loop around the A frame ball joint. I actually used a seat-belt instead of winch cable which wrapped neatly round the drum.

I didn't get round to it, but the plan was to wrap two seatbelts round the drum then run one forward past the gearbox, with a pulley on the left engine mount to direct it down to the front axle as well.

The purpose of this was to fit my 90 in my Garage.

Si

[o_teunico]

If it's just a case of lowering the vehicle for tunnels, what about the same trick the Americans use (to lower the suspension for hill climbs etc).

Connect the cable from a small ATV winch to the middle of each axle. Winch in, suspension is squashed. Winch out - back to normal.

That´s certainly one of the best ideas I have ever heard! Si, you are my hero!

Winch(es) could be easily removed for MoT, or even get approved (that´s easy, as rules admit home made winch mounts) and will also double as cetre strap for avoiding propshaft UJ failure. Whith cable or rope, if correctly attached to chassis, they could even be used for recovery when needed.

[o_teunico]

Have googled it. Seems to be called "axle winching". I think that, for my particular needs, it´s the way to follow.

[muddy]

The axle winch sounds like another good solution, what happens if you run day to day on say 205/40/16 car tyres will that get you under the height limit?

Or getting some very soft springs and cutting them down to give appropriate height and poundage?

Will.

Ps. Si that's just the kind of ridiculous ideas I get after spending too long welding up chassis in a windowless workshop.

[simonr]

I'd considered it to stiffen the suspension on side slopes. I have Fox Air Shox, which are VERY soft - so it leans a lot on slopes. I ended up (as a simpler, quick-fix) tethering the axles (as shown in the photo above).

Because the winch, at least on the rear, is always pulling down, it doesn't need much fixing to the chassis if it's support is sitting on top of the chassis.

I guess in a Disco, you probably only need to lower the rear.

Si