quick towing question

[mike4444244]

Hi

I know this has been covered but I find it quite confusing! can I just confirm that I can tow a sankey, roughly 375kg + 750kg payload, behind my 110 csw, mam 2950kg, I should be allowed 3500kg + 750kg right?

I passed my test in 2000 hence the confusion?

Ta

Mike

[Aragorn]

It depends on the MAM of the trailer i believe (rather than its actual loaded weight).

If MAM of trailer is 750 or less, then you can tow it without issue.

If its greater than 750, and you do not have +E entitlement on your licence, then the MAM of the trailer, plus the MAM of the vehicle, must be below (or equal to) 3500kg, and the trailer's MAM must be less than the unladen weight of the tow vehicle.

So even an unloaded sankey would not be allowed, due to its MAM plus the vehicles MAM exceeding 3500kg.

Oddly it means that while you cant tow the sankey legally behind the 110, you could most likely put a fully loaded one behind a typical family estate car like a VW Passat perfectly legally!!

[Bowie69]

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence-rules-and-what-you-can-tow

Licences held from 1 January 1997

If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can drive either:

• a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500 kilograms (kg) Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM (with a combined weight of up to 4,250kg in total)
• a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or ‘kerb’ weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)

I don't know the MAM of the sankey, but assuming your figures it would be 1125Kg, 110 MAM in your case is 2950Kg.

So looking at the second bullet point (as the Sankey MAM is higher than 750KG), your combined weight (MAM) would be 4075Kg, well over the 3500Kg limit, so unfortunately you wouldn't be able to legally tow it.

You could get the trailer re-plated to 750Kg, then you could tow it under the first bullet point, but a sankey with 375Kg payload seems a bit woeful!

[Bowie69]

to add, if you passed your test after 19th Jan 2013, you would be able to tow it, likely fully laden as it then depends on the WEIGHT of the vehicle and trailer, not MAM.

Licences issued from 19 January 2013

From 19 January 2013, drivers passing a category B (car and small vehicle) test can tow:

• small trailers weighing no more than 750kg
• trailers weighing more than 750kg, where the combined weight of the towing vehicle and the trailer isn’t more than 3,500kg

IMHO they should have made this change retrospective to avoid confusion.

[ejparrott]

IMHO they should have made this change retrospective to avoid confusion.

Yes...but I'd have been right royally p'd off....cost me a lot of money to do my Cat E test!

[Daan]

Yes...but I'd have been right royally p'd off....cost me a lot of money to do my Cat E test!

How much, if you dont care me asking? It is still on my list of things to do, but never got round it.

Daan

[landroversforever]

How much, if you dont care me asking? It is still on my list of things to do, but never got round it.

Daan

I spoke to a local training place, they wanted £600 for three days, with the test on the third day included in the price.

[western]

I'm glad it's not retrospective, the detail could be much clearer than it is.

[Bowie69]

To clarify, I only meant back to 1997, as the regulations between 1997 and 2013 are so confusing it would be better binning them.

[mike4444244]

bugger, I'll have to do my +E test

thanks guys

[=jon=]

to add, if you passed your test after 19th Jan 2013, you would be able to tow it, likely fully laden as it then depends on the WEIGHT of the vehicle and trailer, not MAM.

What would happen if you retook (and repassed) your normal test again today - would you then be able to tow the increased amount without having to do the trailer test?

Jon

[V8CAMEL]

Can I just say you should never tow quickly

[Tanuki]

Can I just say you should never tow quickly

Some of us are quite happy to tow quickly. Of course we make sure our tow-vehicle has decent shock-absorbers [bilsteins in my case], sits low [no lifts - suspension-lowering's the thing if you want stable towing!], the trailer's got decent, well-adjusted brakes and the load's properly positioned so it presents a good download on the tow-hitch.

When nobody's looking I'll happily cruise at 80MPH in my 90 with a flatbed loaded to 3000Kg on the back. And I have documented evidence that after four consecutive runs at Santa Pod it will still pull up straight and within the Highway-Code's supposed stopping-distance for a car doing 60MPH.

[western]

To clarify, I only meant back to 1997, as the regulations between 1997 and 2013 are so confusing it would be better binning them.

got it, glad it wasn't involving pre '97 licences.

[bobed90]

Took my test last week. Had morning training and test in the afternoon. Cost £350 including the test fee of £115. This was through a training company in yorkshire using there vehicle and trailer. Test lasts about 1hour 30 mins including a reversing section at the test centre. I found the trailer side of it easy but its like taking your driving test again so they look at everything. There is a very high failure rate so practice as much as you can. My boss put me through my test and the guy i work with did his a week later and failed. He failed for not using his passenger mirror in the reverse monouvere. Its definately worth doing to keep you legal.

[ejparrott]

How much, if you dont care me asking? It is still on my list of things to do, but never got round it.

Daan

IIRC I think it was £540 for a four day intensive course with test at the end. It was with Jason Morris in Coventry, and he was excellent

[Ridgeback]

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence-rules-and-what-you-can-tow

Licences held from 1 January 1997

If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can drive either:

• a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500 kilograms (kg) Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM (with a combined weight of up to 4,250kg in total)

• a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or kerb weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)

I don't know the MAM of the sankey, but assuming your figures it would be 1125Kg, 110 MAM in your case is 2950Kg.

So looking at the second bullet point (as the Sankey MAM is higher than 750KG), your combined weight (MAM) would be 4075Kg, well over the 3500Kg limit, so unfortunately you wouldn't be able to legally tow it.

You could get the trailer re-plated to 750Kg, then you could tow it under the first bullet point, but a sankey with 375Kg payload seems a bit woeful!

The way I read this from point 2 , the total MAM of the Sankey is less than the kerb weight of the 110 @ 1850kg . It mentions a total weight of 3500kg for both but nothing mentions the 3500kg needs to be the total MAM of both, just that the total combined weight can't be over 3500kg.

If this is the case then you could now tow a sankey without doing the extra test. Seems very unclear to me.

[disco_al]

Seems very unclear to me

if it involves the DoT or DVLA you can guarentee that...

[bobed90]

The way I read this from point 2 , the total MAM of the Sankey is less than the kerb weight of the 110 @ 1850kg . It mentions a total weight of 3500kg for both but nothing mentions the 3500kg needs to be the total MAM of both, just that the total combined weight can't be over 3500kg.

If this is the case then you could now tow a sankey without doing the extra test. Seems very unclear to me.

As far as i am aware that is correct. I had a caravan that weighed 1400kgs i could legally tow it on one of my vehicles but not my land rover as the combination was over 3500kgs. I believe this will be changing soon though and also if you tow comercially you will need to take the test soon, along with the drivers cpc and run tachographs in any vehicle over 3.5 ton which you would be in a land rover and trailer combo.

[Aragorn]

The way I read this from point 2 , the total MAM of the Sankey is less than the kerb weight of the 110 @ 1850kg . It mentions a total weight of 3500kg for both but nothing mentions the 3500kg needs to be the total MAM of both, just that the total combined weight can't be over 3500kg.

If this is the case then you could now tow a sankey without doing the extra test. Seems very unclear to me.

From the Govts pamphlet on towing (here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_067672.pdf) :

"Except for category B1, all weights quoted for the relevant vehicles relate to the ‘Maximum Authorised Mass’ (MAM). This is the total weight of the vehicle when ‘laden’ (loaded). Where we refer to an ‘unladen weight’, this means the weight when not carrying a load."

So the combined 3500kg is MAM, not actual weight, as i stated in my earlier post.

Its not unclear in any way, its just people read the thing, wanting it to tell them they can tow their huge trailer without +E, so they read into it what they want.

[Aragorn]

Also means the 2013 licence criteria is STILL based on MAM, not actual weight...

[mike4444244]

Actually hot off the email this morning I have just received written confirmation from the dvla that the rules for trailers over 750kg use WEIGHT of combination not MAM, the dvla confirmed using the figures I quoted above that I can legally tow the sankey behind the 110 as long as if the whole combination was put on a weigh bridge it was less than 3500kg (weirdly not 4250kg!)

So good news!

[UdderlyOffroad]

Awesome, I know the direct.gov website used the word 'weight' not MAM (physics fail!) - but this apparently wasn't enough for some people. Any chance you could post up a scan of your written confirmation (with your personal info blanked out of course) - this would help allay future queries.

Cheers,

Matt

[Bowie69]

That is good news, and a great to have clarification on it.

[mike4444244]

Dear Mr Hughes

Thank you for your email received on 12/8/13. Your email reference number is 1446748.

I can confirm that the advice is in weight not MAM.

Providing your vehicle and trailer when you are driving it does not weigh more than 3500kg, you would be entitled to drive this combination using a category B licence.

I hope this information helps.

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M Thomas

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