Nigelw Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Thanks to a thread in the video shack (unable to post link on this antique POS!!!) I am posing a hypothetical scenario on your pride and joy being recovered from an incident, be it a vehicular accident or an off road mishap(as happened to our very own poor CJ1 recently). I saw a comment from Ross on the RRS thread where a D3 was recovered for repair only for the owner to find it had been recovered with a chain through the doors this was the damage that turned an already costly repairable vehicleinto a write off. So who is ultimately responsible for ensuring that no further unnecessary damage occurs during the recovery process???? And this leads me to the other point of liability? Is there any come back on sloppy recovery outfits who turn a vehicle that could be repaired into a write off due to their recovery techniques? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 If the original repair is covered by your insurance, it is up to them to try to claim from the recoverer's insurance - though this will become protracted and you / they may not bother. If the original damage was uninsured, then it's up to you to claim on the recovery company's insurance for the additional damage. In either case, they may argue that in the opinion of the driver, it was the safest way to recover the vehicle. In that case, you would probably have to argue it in court. It would be a tough case to prove as the recovery driver will probably have received training and have documented experience to call upon, whereas your evidence is only in the form of your opinion. The Magistrate will make a judgement based on the balance of evidence, but it has to be strongly in favour of the plaintiff to go their way. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 It has been happening as long as recovery has occurred, so I guess there is something in the contract of "reasonable force to accomplish the task". But also the recovery contract is with the insurer. If the bloke paid to get his D3 recovered then he would be right to be angry, but the fact that you don't means you pass that liability onto your insurer. Also there are the laws of "obstruction" where a fire engine is entitled to bulldoze cars out of its way if absolutely necessary and send the car owners a bill for any damage it incurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 I have issues with this and have had a bit of thinking to do about my own vehicles safety should an event transpire. Like most here, I have invested considerably more money into my truck than I ould ever recieve from an insurance claim, I am €8,000+ deep on a 22yr old Disco1, which might get around €2,500 at best if it was deemed a total loss!!! If it were to be fundamentally damaged further as a result of recovery I would be a little bit annoyed to say the least. In a past life as a professional I had to do such things as risk assessments and method statements for the companies, recovery of plant and equipment was not uncommon and it was company policy that as little further damage as possible was to be inflicted upon any machines being recovered. I am wondering about how to safe gaurd my investment, yes it might have to go to a court of law to be proven, but if I can get back my investment then it would be worth it!!! I get the whole "reasonable force to accomplish task" contract, but this has to be exactly that, reasonable, I'm not saying that all recovery companies are irresponsible, just that I ant to find the best way to cover my vehicle should a numpty of a driver decide a coffee and a big mac are more important than the safe and undamaged recovery of my vehicle. Anyone here tried and won against a bad recovery service??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I think one thing that leads to the problem is the low perceived value of the vehicles, as such it's financially more sensible to trash the vehicle getting it out of the way than it is to say call in a second crew or just take longer recovering the vehicle. If you watch the recoveries of larger vehicles (hgv's etc) far more care is taken, no doubt due to their higher value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 Just wondering here and throwing it out there, but who would you persue in any possible claim? Recovery agent? I seriously doubt I would try to do this through my insurer as I think they'd be biased as paying out the lesser €2,500 would be in their interest and case closed surely? I totally get the percieved value Barry, but there is value on paper and then the blood sweat and a heck of a lot of tears in my case that went into our vehicles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Can you not get an agreed value insurance policy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 I am going to talk with my insurer but I am not sure how it works over here, expensive is one word, extortion is closer to the mark though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Like most here, I have invested considerably more money into my truck than I ould ever recieve from an insurance claim, I am €8,000+ deep on a 22yr old Disco1, which might get around €2,500 at best if it was deemed a total loss!!! If it were to be fundamentally damaged further as a result of recovery I would be a little bit annoyed to say the least. €2500 for a Disco is very unlikely. I got €1500 for my P38 (max value). They did first approve ~€2500 if it was repaired by a Land Rover dealer though. No insurance company in the world is going to pay a few hours' worth of crane time for a vehicle that's worth less than an hour of that crane's time. It's just that simple. The owner of a vehicle always thinks his vehicle is worth more than it actually is, but if you were to sell it, I doubt you'd get €8000 for it, even though that's what you put into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Can you not get an agreed value insurance policy? The recovery agent wouldn't know that value and possibly wouldn't care - I think its important to stop the damage in the first place. If you are with the vehicle you could probably argue the toss about the recovery method but if the car is being recovered after theft or worse you are in an ambulance on the way to hospital I suppose its all going to happen without you being abble to do much about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 When I had a car stolen I had to agree blind to pay the police to recover the vehicle if they found it otherwise they would just leave it there :/ Someone I know had a breakdown in a multi-storey, the recovery company couldn't get a spec in so decided to put a chain under the car and tie it around the engine then dragged it out with a transit. This is months ago and last time I saw them they were still arguing the damage with the recovery company who seemed of the opinion that any damage caused during recovery was at your risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Photographic evidence of the car in-situ in prior to recovery would be a must...if it's lying in a ditch with apparent damage to only one area then it would be reasonable to assume that the recovery agent should have the necessary skills, equipment and technique to recover the vehicle without further damages. If the recovery required two winches for removal then I'm sure this cost would pass on to the insurer? Unfortunately taking pics etc is normally the furthest thing from your mind after an incident but there are normally others on site with camera phones at the ready to document your misery. The RRS "ruined" in the ford recovery would most certainly have been an economic write off due to water damage but no doubt completely salvageable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g&t Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 That's a shame. I upped the agreed value on my '87 RRC by £1000 at renewal time this year & the underwriters accepted the increase without any change in the premium. Nice to get a result in this day & age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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