discovery 2 racing suspension

[muddy4x4xfar]

hi all, i have a 2001 discovery 2, I'm looking to keep upgrade the suspension, for racing style handling, on road and off road, handling like the bowler wildcats basically, any ideas on what i can do ? where to go? etc, i use this vehicle every day , would love to be able to throw it into corners at speed etc, you get the idea,

[landroversforever]

I appreciate what you're wanting to do, but do bear in mind the disco is a big lump to be throwing about!

Lots of money on decent suspension is where you want to be spending. Stiffer anti roll bars would also help.

Retrofitting the ACE system would also bring benefits.

[stuck]

You can make it handle better for sure but the laws of physics are going to fight you all the way.

I guess the main question is going to be how much money are you prepared to spend?

[muddy4x4xfar]

You can make it handle better for sure but the laws of physics are going to fight you all the way.

I guess the main question is going to be how much money are you prepared to spend?

iv spent quite a bit on the vehicle, I'm at a point I'm planning on building an engine for it sticking to td5 but built for more power etc, id like to keep it looking original as in not stand out but as best performance i can get as possible, imagine a discovery 2 body on a bowler wildcat idea.

[landroversforever]

I like that. Got to love a good sleeper

[muddy4x4xfar]

I like that. Got to love a good sleeper

come on look at half the things people do with their motors , theres always a way just takes someone ambitious , and the right brains.

[FridgeFreezer]

1st question: Are you actually racing it?

2nd Question: How much money are you willing to spend?

[Shackleton]

Got to love a good sleeper

Oh yeah

ACE is really good within the realm of everyday driving, but I'd take a long hard look at it if I wanted to do what you're talking about.

I have a 2 door RR that handles far better than I ever expected it could. It'll bowl flat through a tight roundabout, the type with the elevated brick section like track rumble strips, at 45mph+ without getting upset. It's on Police springs (red & white) in the rear and blue HD's in the front, giving a notional +2". I have a mixture of OEM and poly bushes all round, and aftermarket shocks. It's on 235's. Even though it's lifted rather than lowered there are three key factors I think are making all the difference - 1. Overall it's a light car in LR terms. 2. The poly bushes and high rate springs make it very stiff (it's still v.comfortable but noticeably firmer in ride). 3. I made custom engine/gearbox mounts, and dropped the lot downwards, so engine and box sit a bit lower in the car because it's a Td5 & R380. It's an early RR without anti roll bars.

The reason I started that by saying ACE is decent is because my D2 handles almost as well as the RR. That stands to reason when you consider that LR used ACE to allow them to put a softer spring in for more comfort and my D2 is also on +2" HD's all around - OME 779 front and 763 rear, I presume it isn't quite as supple as a standard D2 and it's a little tail happy, but it handles. There is one key distinction though. It's not as instant as good old fashioned stiff springs - you can feel the ACE working and the impression I get - albeit very subtle - is that the accelerometers don't trigger it until they sense a certain amount of roll or G. So in fast driving terms it's not quite as intuitive as just springs. It doesn't feel as predictably chuckable. I should say though that it bit me once or twice so I just don't bother getting too spirited with it.

If I were you I'd set about putting standard height higher rate springs in. (there are -2" springs for Defender, but that's another story. In terms of cutting or heating/compressing springs, I just wouldn't) Then consider Polybushes, the debate rages onward but I haven't experienced anything bad with the set I have and they're just Britpart yellow. If you're going to build an engine then I suppose you could also move the mounts down while it's out, taking careful measurements for clearance of the front axle etc. Also worth considering that lighter wheels recover faster, but I think on a road going live axled LR that may well be academic.

Lastly, I was just wondering have you been in a Bowler or similar? I love a machine with zero compromise but the suspension would drive me crazy for day to day driving. It'd be like hitting your bump stops on every little pothole, except they're made of nails. Pointy ones

[muddy4x4xfar]

Oh yeah

ACE is really good within the realm of everyday driving, but I'd take a long hard look at it if I wanted to do what you're talking about.

I have a 2 door RR that handles far better than I ever expected it could. It'll bowl flat through a tight roundabout, the type with the elevated brick section like track rumble strips, at 45mph+ without getting upset. It's on Police springs (red & white) in the rear and blue HD's in the front, giving a notional +2". I have a mixture of OEM and poly bushes all round, and aftermarket shocks. It's on 235's. Even though it's lifted rather than lowered there are three key factors I think are making all the difference - 1. Overall it's a light car in LR terms. 2. The poly bushes and high rate springs make it very stiff (it's still v.comfortable but noticeably firmer in ride). 3. I made custom engine/gearbox mounts, and dropped the lot downwards, so engine and box sit a bit lower in the car because it's a Td5 & R380. It's an early RR without anti roll bars.

The reason I started that by saying ACE is decent is because my D2 handles almost as well as the RR. That stands to reason when you consider that LR used ACE to allow them to put a softer spring in for more comfort and my D2 is also on +2" HD's all around - OME 779 front and 763 rear, I presume it isn't quite as supple as a standard D2 and it's a little tail happy, but it handles. There is one key distinction though. It's not as instant as good old fashioned stiff springs - you can feel the ACE working and the impression I get - albeit very subtle - is that the accelerometers don't trigger it until they sense a certain amount of roll or G. So in fast driving terms it's not quite as intuitive as just springs. It doesn't feel as predictably chuckable. I should say though that it bit me once or twice so I just don't bother getting too spirited with it.

If I were you I'd set about putting standard height higher rate springs in. (there are -2" springs for Defender, but that's another story. In terms of cutting or heating/compressing springs, I just wouldn't) Then consider Polybushes, the debate rages onward but I haven't experienced anything bad with the set I have and they're just Britpart yellow. If you're going to build an engine then I suppose you could also move the mounts down while it's out, taking careful measurements for clearance of the front axle etc. Also worth considering that lighter wheels recover faster, but I think on a road going live axled LR that may well be academic.

Lastly, I was just wondering have you been in a Bowler or similar? I love a machine with zero compromise but the suspension would drive me crazy for day to day driving. It'd be like hitting your bump stops on every little pothole, except they're made of nails. Pointy ones

hi thats great, at least all something for me to consider, no I'm not going to be racing it ill be doing offloading with it, but nothing serious, no iv never been in a bowler wildcat, but if won lottery it would be first one id buy i think, I'm after that kind of thing but on my discovery its my first car i bought and had it since i was 15 year old so I'm not looking to get rid if it, but want it to be different from the rest, if that makes sense. I'm a fast driver, love rally kind of racing i.e dakar etc an wondered if it was possible to put that kind of thing onto a discovery as the bowler uses the same axles and trailing arms / radius arms etc I'm told , i didn't know whether it was a case of extra shocks of a certain type like the bowler the springs etc,

[stuck]

I don't wish to be rude but if you aren't going to race it why would you like your Disco to be like a Wildcat?

A Bowler Wildcat is a machine that was built purely for racing, it's not designed to be a daily driver or to have the articulation that you would want on a challenge truck.

The suspension on your disco is (like most things on it) a compromise, yes you can change the suspension to make it handle (a bit) better just as you can upgrade the engine to give it (a bit) more power but it will never be a Bowler Wildcat.

Even if you had thousands to throw at the suspension & engine, trying to turn it into something it was never designed to be, how long do you think it will be before something else breaks? (Chassis, body, transmission - take your pick!)

Building a quicker Disco that handles better is one thing but it is not & never will go / handle like a Bowler Wildcat.

[muddy4x4xfar]

I don't wish to be rude but if you aren't going to race it why would you like your Disco to be like a Wildcat?

A Bowler Wildcat is a machine that was built purely for racing, it's not designed to be a daily driver or to have the articulation that you would want on a challenge truck.

The suspension on your disco is (like most things on it) a compromise, yes you can change the suspension to make it handle (a bit) better just as you can upgrade the engine to give it (a bit) more power but it will never be a Bowler Wildcat.

Even if you had thousands to throw at the suspension & engine, trying to turn it into something it was never designed to be, how long do you think it will be before something else breaks? (Chassis, body, transmission - take your pick!)

Building a quicker Disco that handles better is one thing but it is not & never will go / handle like a Bowler Wildcat.

ok another way of explaining it, a discovery with rally handling , i will be taking it off road but not building it purely for off roading ill use it every day as well. its like you can modify a subaru for rally as well take it rallying but also use it for everyday use.

[stuck]

Ok,

I think "landroversforever" gave you the answer in post #2

[FridgeFreezer]

If you want Bowler Wildcat handling be prepared to spend significantly more than the value of the car on a set of shocks - then you'll only really see the benefit when off-roading at ~100km/h where cheaper suspension would fade away or get beaten to death.

[miketomcat]

Having had both a disco and a tomcat(granted mine had standard suspension) the main reason the tomcat was better is a low centre of gravity. This you can't do in a disco but I do drive quickly and a disco on police springs works well you could try something like x-eng's disconnect anti roll bar that would help. The biggest thing is ( and no offense ment) you need to learn to drive a disco differently the best I can describe it is treat it like a front wheel drive but please please be careful because it is top heavy and it will bite you.

Mike

[elbekko]

My Land Rovers have basically always been limited by tyre grip for fast road stuff, not suspension... I did upgrade to stiffer (not higher) springs in the Classic to stop the body from rolling so much, that was nice. But it did mean I had to take speed bumps even faster

[Henry Webster]

As someone who races a Discovery, I would agree with many of the comments in this thread - especially Stuck. My out and out rally car is horrible on the road, unless you are throwing it sideways at every corner, which is only something you can do when the roads are closed! It is uncomfortable, harsh, noisy, doesn't articulate all that well, but at speed in the rough is amazing. It has 2.5" Milner Varidamp dampers and standard TDi springs, but is considerably lighter than a standard car. It eats Wildcats for breakfast!

I have also raced another Discovery this year which is more similar to what you are looking for (albeit a 300tdi, not a Discovery 2). In this case it has some up-rated springs, and good standard fitment remote reservoir dampers, a full set of anti-roll bars and some decent poly bushes. This is much more civilised, as basically an uprated production car, but is not nearly as good on the stages.

In essence the key to making a Discovery handle is the same as any car really. Good maintenance, bushes of good quality and in good condition, the best dampers you can afford (Fox, Milner, King and heard good reports on the Terrafirma remote reservoir and Britpart remote reservoir dampers too, if you are on a budget.) and decent springs.

And I love ACE on my road car.

Be careful, a Discovery will never be a 'fast' road car, you can hustle them along, but there are many better starting points if you want something that goes fast on tarmac. Its what cars were invented for!

[Chicken Drumstick]

ok another way of explaining it, a discovery with rally handling , i will be taking it off road but not building it purely for off roading ill use it every day as well. its like you can modify a subaru for rally as well take it rallying but also use it for everyday use.

I don't think you've said what spec your D2 is?

Does it have air suspension or ACE already, or is it a base model with just coils?

Something to consider, high speed on road performance is different to slow off road ability. You'll have to sacrifice one or the other, or heavily compromise on both.

And money.... doing anything will cost money and a fair bit of it.

And while I do agree with many of the points made in this thread, I can't say I agree with them all. There is nothing wrong with wanting a road going rally type vehicle. And compromising to a lesser spec often costs about the same and then missing the mark and doesn't deliver what you actually want.

If it was mean, I'd make the decision between on road and off road. Off road I'd want to lift it and chuck some 33-35" knobbly tyres on it and make it flex more.

On road, I'd probably look at dropping it 2" and stiffening the whole thing up.

Weight is sadly one thing you can't ignore with a D2, they are heavy. If you really want better performance, then loosing some of this will help. But depends how far you want to go.

The Td5, while a good motor is long, tall and heavy. None of which sell it as a performance engine.

Plenty of RR's have been raced and rallied in the past, the D2 isn't so different, so would be just as capable.

But the truth is, even with fairly vast sums of money, a modern hatch is still likely to be quicker than a road modded Disco.

[RedLineMike]

That range rover ^^^^ was quick enough to upset several rally cars In stage when it hunted them down

[miketomcat]

If I remember correctly that rangie was a disco 2 chassis, the body was all but a spaceframe and it was a chassis / suspension development mule for tomcat motorsport. I'm sure they were running it when I bought my tomcat.

Mike

[Nigelw]

The wheels caught my eye! Not the fact that they are small but the PCD looks like D2/P38a.

[elbekko]

You can see the D2 radius arms sticking out underneath.

[Henry Webster]

Yes that RR is largely D2 underneath. Other than that it is fairly similar to my Discovery. Standard type and location springs and 2.5 Milner Varidamps and anti-roll bars.

[honitonhobbit]

I have a 'standard' D2 ES - so air/ace/18" wheels. It's been chipped a bit and had some stuff done to make it more driveable. It handles like a dream for a 2.3tonne bus. You have to work hard to lose it in the wet....