Snagger Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Try to picture the movements of the springs and shackles. Double shackles are pointless and will not help articulation but will collapse and cause failures. The point of revolvers is to reduce longitudinal spring torsion when the axle articulates so it is no longer parallel to the chassis cross members. Any fancy shackle that doesn't incorporate that longitudinal pivot is a waste of time, having no benefit over the original shackles and plenty of negatives. The blue folding shackles are evidently designed by someone trying to achieve the leaf spring equivalent of coiler dislocation cones, allowing a dropping spring and wheel to drop further, but the execution is more involved than Jim Bob's plan (which would collapse). Their practical benefit is negligible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim-Bob Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Cheers Snagger, I thought that my plan probably wouldn't work, just an idea that popped in to my head that I thought I'd share for those more knowledgeable to put me straight. I'm going to follow what Daan did I think with the addition of Teflon strips, impressive what a relatively standard set-up can achieve with some fettling! On that note Daan if your reading this could you put some more pictures up of your old suspension set-up (if you have any more)? James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Not really, this was about 20 years ago, and I probably would do it differently now. The shock was clamped to a bracket that bolted to the flange that holds the swivel on (in double shear). And there were 2 angle sections going up from the chassis on each side to hold a u channel (that you see sitting behind the radiator) to which the shocks were bolted. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 The problem with the standard series front set up is the lack of twist in the spring/shackle/dumb iron. The revolver allow more twist, thus articulation is improved, with longer travel shocks. But all the revolver does is allow the front spring mount to twist. Could the same effect be achieved by allowing the bush bolt to twist? Say, by having one end of the bolt (suitably modified) in a slot, in the dumb iron, rather than a hole? In normal use the bolt would rest half way in the slot, but under articulation it would go up out down in the slot as required. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I think you'd end up wearing out the slot and the bolt fairly quickly if its moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I can post some pics if you want to show how it goes together - or you can come and have look for yourself. Hi I'd very much appreciate some photos of your set up. Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Hi all, I'm planning a series build eventually so this is all a vapour project at the moment, but I'm looking to retain series looks and originality as much as possible whilst making improvements to various parts/areas of the truck, one being flexiblility/articulation...I know fixed leaf springs aren't the best but it's the hand we've been dealt! Now from what I've read from here and the rest of the interweb the Gon2far stuff seemed to cure alot of the inherent flexibility issues the series were produced with, but as I'm sure your aware they have unfortunately seized trading a while back. So my question is does anyone make a similar kit or does anyone have any details on DIY self build kits or detailed plans that could be used for a DIY set-up? The closest I've seen to a technical drawing is an exploded diagram showing how the parts of the spring mounts fit together? Sorry for the essay! Thanks in advance James Hi, not sure if I can be of any help or not. BTW I'm fairly local to you too, I'm not far from Leighton Buzzard, but drive past Biscester most days, as I work in Oxford. I have a Series 3 88 and I too have spent much time researching Gon2Far, as I wanted to get their stuff years ago. But that Land Rover didn't pan out. My current 88 is this: It was mostly standard, just running some unknown parabolics (supplied by Paddock many years ago to the previous owner) and the normal Pro Comp shocks that are longer than stock Series ones. I didn't think it flexed too bad at the rear, but the front was the issue. It just never moved about much. The vehicle is currently undergoing a rebuild and after much deliberation I decided to go a different route on the suspension. I've replaced the rear 3 leaf parabolic springs with some 2 leaf ones from Rocky Mountain. They certainly look nice and long, so hoping they will perform well. On the front, I've extended the chassis and fitted the 3 leaf parabolics I used to run on the rear, i.e. a longer spring. I've also opted for some very long 14" travel shocks and I'm in the process of building new upper shock mounts for them. My aim has really been to make the front flex more like the rear used too and retain or improve on the rear flex. I also didn't want to lift the vehicle, so I've kept it spring under axle for now. I know there will be plenty of R&D once it's running. I think I'll end up putting some longer 1 Ton shackles on the front to allow enough movement of the spring. But this is probably due to where we relocated the chassis bush. Also if the front is still too stiff, then I'll get a 2nd pair of the 2 leaf Rocky Mountain parabolic rear springs to replace the 3 leaf ones. It's a bit of a project as I've coincided it with replacing the chassis as the old one was rotten. I'm also fitting a 200Tdi and a p38a power steering setup. My aim is to keep it looking very "Series" and standardish. So I'm sticking with 7.50 x 16 tyres while I can still get them. Also I think any bigger will cause issues with fouling the inside of the rear seat box, as they did that with the old suspension anyhow. Here are some pics of progress: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 You'll gain more if you replace the poly bushes (hard, by the looks of the orange colour) with something more supple, either super pro or genuine rubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 You'll gain more if you replace the poly bushes (hard, by the looks of the orange colour) with something more supple, either super pro or genuine rubber. Thanks. Poly bushes are only in the front spring on the chassis bush. Stock rubber elsewhere. Mostly because Rocky Mountain supplied the bushes and the new cross member already had rubber ones pre-fitted. And I take what you say on board, although for every 6 posts I read saying they reduce flex, I read half a dozen more saying they improve flex. So I'll probably just see how it goes for now. Either way I'm expecting/hoping it to massively improve on the stock suspension flex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim-Bob Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Cheers Chicken Drumstick, have you got a build thread for your truck, keen to keep an eye on your progress and results! Can't believe how much longer those new shocks are compared to standard ones! Once the truck is back together maybe I could pop over/meet you somewhere for a look at the truck and what you've done to get the extra flex? All ideas greatly appreciated! James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Polybushes help where the bush is being rotated, as the inner sleeve is free to move within the bush, hence why you grease them. If you have to squash the rubber in any way then it will make it worse, in a chassis bush situation, it will help with the spring drooping flat, but once you try and twist the leaf as if you were cross-axling, they will bind up far quicker because of the firmer material. This is why polybushed coilers have zero flex at the front, the radius arm to axle bushes are holding the axle rigid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Cheers Chicken Drumstick, have you got a build thread for your truck, keen to keep an eye on your progress and results! Can't believe how much longer those new shocks are compared to standard ones! Once the truck is back together maybe I could pop over/meet you somewhere for a look at the truck and what you've done to get the extra flex? All ideas greatly appreciated! James Hi. I really should setup a build thread. I'll do that and post a link here to it. And most definitely meet up. Sort of seems silly not too being only half an hour away or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 The problem with the standard series front set up is the lack of twist in the spring/shackle/dumb iron. The revolver allow more twist, thus articulation is improved, with longer travel shocks. But all the revolver does is allow the front spring mount to twist. Could the same effect be achieved by allowing the bush bolt to twist? Say, by having one end of the bolt (suitably modified) in a slot, in the dumb iron, rather than a hole? In normal use the bolt would rest half way in the slot, but under articulation it would go up out down in the slot as required. G. That is exactly what the Gon2Far dumbiron does at the front end of the front springs, and the revolver shackles at the back of the rear springs. You could go one stage further and have that front hanger system and revolvers on all four springs, but I can't see it making much difference; there is enough torsion in the springs not to need it, and it would give unstable handling for little extra articulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I'm going to follow what Daan did I think with the addition of Teflon strips, impressive what a relatively standard set-up can achieve with some fettling! On that note Daan if your reading this could you put some more pictures up of your old suspension set-up (if you have any more)? James Terri-Ann Wakeman did this on her 109 Dormobile, if I recall, to good effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Slightly unrelated question.... Anyone have pictures of the green G2F lightweight? My wife wants something to drive and I would like to show her that one but I can only find 2 pictures of it on its roof..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 This one? http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=91066&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous doug Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 That's the one, thanks! That thing was cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Cheers Chicken Drumstick, have you got a build thread for your truck, keen to keep an eye on your progress and results! Can't believe how much longer those new shocks are compared to standard ones! Once the truck is back together maybe I could pop over/meet you somewhere for a look at the truck and what you've done to get the extra flex? All ideas greatly appreciated! James Eventually created a full build thread. Link in my sig to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPR Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 So I developed a similar suspension set up at the same time as Gon2Far and in fact frequently corresponded with him and compared notes. I got prototype revolver shackles from Great Basin in the US, had full length slip wide yolk propshafts made at the Propshaft Clinic in the UK and mucked around with shock mounts until Gon2Far came out with his, far better, and bought those. The revolvers gave a lot of articulation. In fact, too much. I had to put limiting straps on the rear axle so that it would not articulate out of the propshaft. They were very scary when unloading weight in an off camber situation, when descending a steep bumpy slope, and when locking up at high speed! I took them off when I put portals on my truck. With front and rear lockers and 36.5" tires, not so much articulation required Early days in Dubai: With Limiting straps: Post portals - No revolvers just slightly longer than Military Length shackles and long travel (Gon2Far) shock Mounts: And how it looks today: So I would skip revolvers, run at least military length shackles, copy the Gon2Far shock mounts, and run parbolics with soft bushings. I recommend portal axles too ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Your 88 looks great in that last pic RPR! I remember reading about your Landy years ago before I could even drive, nice to see its still going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Lewis is right, that's a great looking series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPR Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Your 88 looks great in that last pic RPR! I remember reading about your Landy years ago before I could even drive, nice to see its still going Thanks for the backhanded compliment (of making me feel like an old geezer) ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Lol! If it makes you feel any better I'm not exactly young myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Long time no see RPR! How the devil are you? That Series still looks great. I ended up with a similar setup (portals, G2F front mounts, long shocks, no revolvers) on the 109 and a similar experience to yours - ultimate articulation gets less interesting. The revolvers were deemed unsuitable for heavy loads on Russian roads by Jez, and having done the trip (and seen everything wear out & shake loose) I am inclined to think it was the right call. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Very nice looking 88 there RPR, I'd seen the 3rd pic on Pirate I think. I still wonder if I should try the mil/1 ton shackles on mine. But tbh, it goes more than well enough for my needs. And it would be a shame fiddle un-needed. FF - I agree, I don't think ultimate articulation is required either. Which is why I've not really done anymore to mine now. However I would say, it now feels like a completely different vehicle. Far more stable and competent. Don't get me wrong, it went quite well previously, but there is a big improvement in all regards. It also rode the rough tracks very well green laning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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