Eightpot Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 So one of my customers had her very smart 110 200TDi Station Wagon stolen a few weeks ago. Police/insurers notified straight away, and fortunately it was recovered a few hours later a few miles down the road - she thinks they just ran out of fuel as it only had a couple of quid left in it but the gauge always showed more. Only damage was a bust ignition barrel, and a flat tyre. Police recovered it back to the station for fingerprinting. the owner doesn't want the insurers involved, wants to keep the car, and without any discussion or agreement of a settlement, the insurers have collected the car from the police and taken it to Copart salvage yard 80 miles away obviously for auction! So they have written it off (for a bust ignition barrel) won't return the car and expect her to pay for an 80 mile recovery, number plates have been removed by Copart, and have told her she must re-MoT it before it can be used on the road (current MoT 2 months old) Surely it can't be right that they can assume ownership of the vehicle without consent or settling with the owner?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Suggest she registers complaint with police - car stolen for a second time? Re recovery - ask them if it is a fine. They will say no. That means it must be a service. Then ask them for a copy of the purchase order that authorised them to do the work - errr doesn't exist. No order, no payment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 It's probably in the insurance company terms and conditions that they can chose to dispose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 The vehicle remains the property of the owner until such time as they accept a settlement from the insurance company. They can't assume anything without the legal owners agreement. I would be demanding the return of the vehicle and starting a formal complaint. They are probably going to try and hide behind "terms & conditions" but they cant overide the law, it's still hers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 Well that's what I'm thinking also - I want to give them a call myself Pretty poor show that the police have handed the car over to a recovery driver without the owners permission as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Who is demanding the recovery fee? When mine was stolen I have to agree to pay the police a recovery fee in the case they found it otherwise they would just leave it wherever they found it. This agreement was made over the phone when I reported the car stolen. I also had to agree to pay storage to the police (or their chosen agent) from the time the police had finished with any investigations to when I removed it. I didn't have insurance and the vehicle wasn't recovered, I wonder if the insurance company have paid this fee on the owners behalf? Either way the insurance company and owner should have made an agreement regarding the price before the vehicle is taken to be sold, the owner maybe liable for the storage fees during this process. A friend of mine was on the phone with the insurer aftwr his was written off whilst they were both looking on the net for similar examples to agree a price. Does the owner not need to sign the vehicle v5 over to the insurance company before Co part can sell it? Which Co part did it go to? I work next to the Sandtoft one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Who's the insurer, not NFU by any chance is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Does the owner not need to sign the vehicle v5 over to the insurance company before Co part can sell it? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 When I had a recovery business and before all the recent laws I was able to obtain from the Police details of the vehicle owners of Stolen Vehciles we recovered fro the Local Authorities. I held one insurer to ransom and got paid fairly quickly because they at that stage owned the vehicle. Insurance companies, as far as I am aware, do not own the vehicle until an agreement is reached for them to settle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 It's probably in the insurance company terms and conditions that they can chose to dispose. It is still your property, if they sell it, it is theft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Make sure they remove that write-off marker when they get it back too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMB Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 As above! The vehicle remains your property until such time as you agree pay out etc from the insurers. You have not contracted the insurers agents to remove the car and are therefore not liable for recovery apart possibly from police action. Report the vehicle as stolen and, as such, ask the police to recover the vehicle from Copart.. They may be reluctant to do so, but will probably bend when you point out that they were complicit in illegal activity in releasing the vehicle without checking with the owner. inform your insurers that you have done so, that the police report details damage before the vehicle was illegally removed and, by their actions, the insurance company have made themselves responsible for all subsequent damage and costs. Good point from James about removing the write-off marker. Do it quick before you are talking compensation for loss of vehicle rather than recovery of the vehicle. It is also customary in the event of a beyond economic repair to offer it to the owner at 20% of the assessed value. As a matter of interest, which insurance company? I had dealings with Copart when our Scenic was BER. Despite ongoing negotiations with my insurers, Copart were pestering to collect the car almost from day one. I had to tell them to go away. There were also subsequent problems with DVLA paperwork. Despite submitting change of ownership and receiving acknowledgement, two years later I received a Speedwatch letter for it from the Gwent police. They were helpful and apologetic when I supplied the DVLA confirmation. DVLA were less so and refused to change their database, presumably because the trade doesn't necessaril;y have to register ownership and they didn't have change of ownership papers from the latest private owner. Apparently the car was sold to a Polish company specialising in RH drive vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Who is demanding the recovery fee? When mine was stolen I have to agree to pay the police a recovery fee in the case they found it otherwise they would just leave it wherever they found it. This agreement was made over the phone when I reported the car stolen. I also had to agree to pay storage to the police (or their chosen agent) from the time the police had finished with any investigations to when I removed it. I didn't have insurance and the vehicle wasn't recovered, I wonder if the insurance company have paid this fee on the owners behalf? Either way the insurance company and owner should have made an agreement regarding the price before the vehicle is taken to be sold, the owner maybe liable for the storage fees during this process. A friend of mine was on the phone with the insurer aftwr his was written off whilst they were both looking on the net for similar examples to agree a price. Does the owner not need to sign the vehicle v5 over to the insurance company before Co part can sell it? Which Co part did it go to? I work next to the Sandtoft one. not sure if anyones asking for a fee - Police removed it as I believe is common practice now for abandoned/stolen cars, she was just waiting for them to let her know when they had finished fingerprinting etc so she could collect - I think the owner is in a bit of a tizz at the moment as things seem to be taken out of her hands The car has been taken to Chester Copart for some reason, 80 miles away - which is pretty annoying as Wolverhampton Copart is only five minutes down the road! Probably best she demands they bring it back to the local depot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 A large proportion of the parts that leave Copart go to Eastern Europe. They bring stuff over from Europe on regular curtain sided lorries then park outside where I work and build elaborate frames inside the trailers which the cars are stacked onto with telehandlers. We sell stuff to Europe and a few times the lorries that take them come loaded with cars and our pallets get squeezed around them. Once the lorry was full so the driver (and I think what was his teenage daughter) opened the windows on the cars, stripped our pallets down and threw the parts inside the cars, about 5,000 parts According to the drivers if they buy from co-part, ship the item over, repair it and sell it the buyer ends up with a 2 year newer car for the same money than if they bought locally. Going back on topic I think the vehicle owner needs to (very quickly) get clear the current status from the police, insurance and co-part as there seem to be a lot of unknowns and confusion. All the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 When my 90 got stolen they found it within 15mins, I had to pay £210 to get it out of the recovery yard three days later, iirc £40 a day storage and £90 recovery. The insurance never even got involved. I would inspect the 110 carefully our local copart has two wheel loaders with long tines and just fork everything off regardless of condition. I would be pretty mad if I was in your friends position. Will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Any news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudmagnet Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 When I had my car stolen the police told me there would be a recovery and storage fee while they fingerprint it before they even found it and as mine was used in a attempted robbery they had it for 3 days but I claimed the fee back from the insurer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 So to wrap up, she's having to pay for recovery back from copart herself. As far as I can make out, having your car nicked is the least of it - if you're unfortunate enough to have the car found you'd better hope you can get to it before a legally enforced cartel steals it a second time and leaves you with nothing but a bill! The police have powers to seize and detain any stolen car with or without owners permission, and the owner is liable for all costs incurred. They keep it for a prolonged period for 'fingerprinting' but highly unlikely that anything would be found or arrest made as a result. appears they work closely with salvage agents who then spirit the car away and your car is written off purely by the cost of the storage and transport costs they then apply (most stolen cars just have a few hundred quid of lock damage). Salvage agents and insurers then benefit by selling the vehicle. So my customer has to pay handsomely for recovery, insurance payout just covers storage and fees to disappear the car, she has to buy her car back from insurers and still pay a hiked premium next year. Alternatively the cops could have called her the morning her car was found and she'd have popped five miles down the road and took it home... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 sue copart for removing the vehicle without her permission. small claims courts love this sort of thing. she'll get all her money back and then some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic-al Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 When I reported mine as stolen the police gave me the option of pay the recovery and storage fees incurred or they would leave it where it where they found it. If the owner agreed to this then they wouldn't be able to claim anything back. If they feel they have a case you can do it online now. Have they classed it as a right off if she had to buy it off the insurance? There's a lot of competition in insurance premiums so I guess they have to turn things around quickly and make there money every way they can. I guess the police like to get it out their yard quickly too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 In lots of areas now the police don't offer a choice - they call recovery in when they find a stolen car, the power to remove stolen vehicles has been written into law. And yes, the insurers automatically decided it was a write off without seeing it probably based on storage/recovery fees (the police were in no hurry to get rid of the car, had it for a month). If it were mine I'd be going ape but taking on a well prepared system aint for everyone, think she'll just accept the hit and move on.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I'm currently going through a small claims court fight. It couldn't be easier. http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted September 21, 2015 Author Share Posted September 21, 2015 Cheers - I'll pass that on ; ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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