Government proposal to introduce road pricing

[Holyzeus]

Saw this on the web and thought you guys would perhaps like to take part. I have signed it. Its not a joke.

The government seems determined to get us back to public transport or the horse and cart. No doubt that the horse and cart would be quicker!! Anyway here is the proposal,

The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it.

The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC, the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver.

A non working Mum who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month.

On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit you can expect an NIP with your monthly bill.

If you care about our freedoms and stopping the constant bashing of the car driver, please sign the petition on No 10's new website:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

[missingsid]

Saw this on the web and thought you guys would perhaps like to take part. I have signed it. Its not a joke.

The government seems determined to get us back to public transport or the horse and cart. No doubt that the horse and cart would be quicker!! Anyway here is the proposal,

The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it.

The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC, the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver.

A non working Mum who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month.

On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit you can expect an NIP with your monthly bill.

If you care about our freedoms and stopping the constant bashing of the car driver, please sign the petition on No 10's new website:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

It will happen, I know a company that is talking to the Government right now about their national system!!

[Bomag]

It will only happen if the people of this country allow it.

They cant jail the whole population for refusing to fit it, nor can they force you to fit it (and even if they did, mine would keep getting drowned/smashed/lost)

This will cost industry and the working population thousands and will NOT effect the congestion of the road network.

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Unfortunately for government coffers, fossil fuels are going to increasingly lose out to biofuels and other new technologies (Hydrogen cells?). What this means is that they will no longer have such a monopoly over sales and hence taxation of fuel at source. Simple answer. Tax us for the miles we drive rather than the fuel used and hey presto coffers are full again, and the populace suitable controlled by means of spy in the cab technology.

Sometimes I wish I didn't enjoy driving so much!

[freeagent]

obviously the introduction of these devices will coincide with the scrapping of fuel duty and road tax....

....wont it????

[Jen]

As a transport professional this scares the hell out of me

Take the M27 for example, say it costs £1 per mile for teh M27 between 8am and 9am.... the A27 runs along side it, as a residential style road it's taxed at 27p per mile (yes, I'm making these figures up as an example!) ... which would you use? The A27 on my route to work runs through residential roads, walk to school routes and several parks, factories etc. Unless *every* road is considered carefully and localised plans are worked out this could have dire consequences for the residential road network. Putting extra vehicle miles on the "cheaper" routes could lead to an increase in pollution where it matters most, an increase in Personal Injury Accients and an increase in road rage (which leads to the previous).

Will it work? I believe it will have some effect, but unless workplaces and schools become more flexible people will still "need to be at work by 8:30".. we have a fabulous team of people working on School and Workplace travel plans, but they don't have the funding to back up their work. Until attitudes, flexible working and of course public transport are sorted people will have no option.

BEFORE such measures are brought it 'another option' has to be available to people. In Hampshire we've had a tram system bid turned down... we offer the solutions but we can't get the funding.

This Goverments solution? : Problem? Tax it!

(sorry for the rant, this post probably could have been more factual and considered but I'm too mad! I only hope I'm not working in Traffic Mgmt if this does go though )

[Happyoldgit]

obviously the introduction of these devices will coincide with the scrapping of fuel duty and road tax....

....wont it????

[Andy]

put the bid in with a northern postcode, you'll get funding then!

opps wrong rant

[Budgie]

I live on an island where the cheapest petrol & diesel is around 10p per litre more than on the mainland.

I live 10 miles from the nearest shop, pub and work.

There is a regular bus service into Stornoway but this takes an hour to get there (20 minutes by car) and I could make 3-4 round trips in the Disco for the same price as one round trip on the bus.

So what is there to make me use public transport more and reduce my use of the roads?

Well there is the weather - 72mph gusts up here yesterday which closed the causeway to the main part of the island so I couldn't drive to the shops anyway.......but neither could the buses!!

Petition signed, along with the other 7561 people (when I signed).

[Top90]

Signed.

There are words to describe this idea, but not to be used here.

Richard

[dottythe90]

Considering the Govt's current track record with IT projects, a national road pricing/tracking/spying scheme is unlikely to be successfully implemented any time soon.

As has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, a scheme of this nature is likely to have many undesired side effects on travelling habits unless carefully thought through first............................so that'll be a complete f**k up then.

[sheeppimp]

signed maybe it will make a difference over 8500 signatures now.

another genius idea that will have no effect on congestion caused by the need for large numbers of people all to travel at the same time.

having said that it will only work if we allow it to - mass refusal to participate, whether through accidental damage, refusal to pay etc can work you just have to think back to the poll tax.

just in case maybe i won't register the trialer...

[Guest MJG]

Saw this on the web....

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/

Duly signed......god I hate this country!!!

[Troddenmasses]

<thread drift>

god I hate this country!!!

I REALLY want to love the country of my birth, and that in which I live. I REALLY want to be governed by a 'middle left' political party (I voted labour at the last election, but didn't think that they would turn out like this - won't be voting for them again). Unfortunately, with all of these kicks to the law abiding majority, I am starting to really cringe. I HATE the idea of lots of CCTV cameras watching my every move, I HATE the idea of a national identity card (I thought that my parents generation fought a war to protect us against tyranny and control), I HATE the idea of everything I do being taxed to death. How about a small government paying out a small amount of money to those desperately in need? What do I do about it? I don't want to leave the country, I feel powerless against an already omnipotent state, but I don't want to live in the kind of world that is presently being built in 'my' name.

</thread drift>

[Budgie]

Well, as they say...............

"It doen't matter who wins the General Election, the Government always get in" !!

[sgnas]

... you just have to think back to the poll tax.

Yeah, it is now called "Council Tax" and is much higher and rising way faster than inflation*

*inflation is a statistic and therefore can be made to show whatever you want, usually that it is a lot lower than the cost of living is actually rising!

[Turbocharger]

<Devil's advocate>

I like the idea of road charging. The more expensive the roads become, the fewer people will use them. This will generate the need for alternatives which will drive their development, especially as the alternative to the car becomes cheaper than the car. It isn't at the moment, because everyone uses a car instead. The leadership for this change can only come from the government.

Looking at the people I meet in the street, I wouldn't trust most to sit the right way round on a lavatory so how can they decide their own transport policy? We've seen what happens - we all sit stationary in cars stubbornly staring ahead and waiting for the numpty in front to get off the phone and start driving.

Environmentally it makes sense, and it can have benefits too - imagine a personal weekly CO2 allowance. 5 commutes in a Fiesta crawling across town twice daily, or the same journey by integrated public transport and the remainder of the CO2 burned in an AC Cobra across a mountain pass for 2 hours on Sunday. No brainer.

As I said, the impetus for this has to come from somewhere. It can't come from "the Government" - they don't have any money. It's our money, however they choose to split it up between education/healthcare/defence/public transport. If you want to make a difference, join the sector (and make some money out of it too!).

[Guest MJG]

<Devil's advocate>

I like the idea of road charging. <SNIP>

I think the issue is that there just is not a dependable cost effective alternative to the car in place for the journeys that most people take. If that was in place well before road charging comes in people might be a bit more supportive I think.

I know this is not a scientific sample but I have three recent peronal examples why the car is king at the moment for me.

Example 1 - Needed to get four people to Weston-Super-Mare recently from where I live in East Cleveland. The total cost by rail was going to be a staggering £450 and involved two change of trains. That cost did not include any transport costs getting to and from our actual destination from the rail station.

Did we go in the car???... too right we did......

As a slight aside interestingly we experienced one of the best anti congestion systems I have ever experieced and some of you will have experinced it too. It is the section of the M42 which is controlled by a plethora of changable overhead speed limit signs all of which is camera monitired and 'policed' by regular gantry mounted Gatso's. I am not a speed camera fan normally but the combination of the changable limits and the cameras meant a very heavy volume of traffic was kept moving very efficiently... B)

Example 2 - Needed to get to Newcastle on business last week. Priced a rail ticket - only around £9.50 return, not bad at all given there was just one of me. I reckon that was pretty competitive compared to what the same journey would have cost by car. But then Northern Rail wrecked the 'feel good' about public transport feeling by ensuring their train was 20 minutes late Actually it was a points failure so strictly it was down to Network Rail - but either ruddy way I was still late. Additionally the whole journey actualy took nearly as half as long again as it would have done in the car.......

Example 3 - my last two journeys to London by GNER were delayed, one by a train breaking down and another by a points failure at Kings Cross.

In fact now that I think about it every ruddy journey I have undertaken by train this year has been marred by some kind of delay or problem including the above but also other issues like the seat reservation system has broken so you lose your pre-reserved seat....

So I'm afraid I don't think most people would be so anti road charging it's just in the absence of a viable and convienient alternative the scheme is (will) be seen as just another way to bleed us dry by stealth tax.

[sheeppimp]

Yeah, it is now called "Council Tax" and is much higher and rising way faster than inflation*

*inflation is a statistic and therefore can be made to show whatever you want, usually that it is a lot lower than the cost of living is actually rising!

i would not dispute that the current system is exorbitant, however the charging system is completely different. Poll Tax - per capita charge. Council Tax - return to rateable charge on property value and this change was a result of mass refusal to comply - the principle is sound. As an aside the main reason for the ongoing increase in council tax is a result of central government reducing the amount of funding it provides to local councils and this shortfall being made up through the council tax - again a conservative new labour policy

[geoffbeaumont]

As an aside the main reason for the ongoing increase in council tax is a result of central government reducing the amount of funding it provides to local councils and this shortfall being made up through the council tax - again a conservative new labour policy

In other words do the taxation at the point where local councils will get the blame not central government, so it'll have less effect at a general election

Trouble is, it works

[nas90]

<thread drift>

I REALLY want to love the country of my birth, and that in which I live. I REALLY want to be governed by a 'middle left' political party (I voted labour at the last election, but didn't think that they would turn out like this - won't be voting for them again). Unfortunately, with all of these kicks to the law abiding majority, I am starting to really cringe. I HATE the idea of lots of CCTV cameras watching my every move, I HATE the idea of a national identity card (I thought that my parents generation fought a war to protect us against tyranny and control), I HATE the idea of everything I do being taxed to death. How about a small government paying out a small amount of money to those desperately in need? What do I do about it? I don't want to leave the country, I feel powerless against an already omnipotent state, but I don't want to live in the kind of world that is presently being built in 'my' name.

</thread drift>

Old Labour New Labour they are both the same and I can remember Old Labour which was run by strangle-hold Unions, however, I have never voted for them because I cannot stand their moral high ground and the inevitable change to a nanny state.

Why are motorbikes not allowed to use bus lanes. Why is there talk of scrapping free parking for motorbikes. Motorbikes use less road, use less fuel, make less pollution. One of my programmers at work cycles from home in Brighton to Burgess Hill and back (about 8 miles each way), all year round, every day, it would be nice if I could extract less tax from him because he is very obviously helping the environment. I pay my workers on results, with bonuses and increases. Seems to me if there was a carrot from this or any government there would be a bigger change and a happier population. Why kick everyone when the way to reduce environmental problems is to reward those that use the better option? But because in the UK we have less tax payers but more services to finance you can forget the carrot, it's back to the stick and boot!

[GBMUD]

Why are motorbikes not allowed to use bus lanes.

They are in Bristol and Bath.

Chris

[Cartman]

Also why does modern motorcycle of say 600cc fitted with a Cat have to pay the same annual RFL as for two years on a new Renault Megan ? Bike takes up less space, less weight and wear on the roads. But it's not about that it's about money going into the government coffers to pay for all it's financial committments (Afghanistan/Iraq/immigration/social issues....)

If they lost the case on cig and alchohol imports by post it would be far worse! Not that this daylight (scrub that - floodlit) robber any more acceptable.

[pugwash]

<Devil's advocate>

I like the idea of road charging. The more expensive the roads become, the fewer people will use them. This will generate the need for alternatives which will drive their development, especially as the alternative to the car becomes cheaper than the car. It isn't at the moment, because everyone uses a car instead. The leadership for this change can only come from the government.

sorry john i just had to reply to this- the reality is that the need for personal transport is almost infinitely elastic- that is you can charge as much as you want and people would still NEED to use cars. There is no drive for alternatives just a drive for more money. The leadership for change will never come from the government as it is not in their best interest- for change to happen they would have to make decisions and spend money, neither of which the current overly beuracratic government can manage!

Looking at the people I meet in the street, I wouldn't trust most to sit the right way round on a lavatory so how can they decide their own transport policy? We've seen what happens - we all sit stationary in cars stubbornly staring ahead and waiting for the numpty in front to get off the phone and start driving.

the reason we all sit in cars is not becuase of our own decisions but the decisions of local regional and national governance- there has been 8 years of no investment and positive strategies to slow down traffic and make it more inefficient. This was decided years ago by the governments social change policy department.

As I said, the impetus for this has to come from somewhere. It can't come from "the Government" - they don't have any money. It's our money, however they choose to split it up between education/healthcare/defence/public transport. If you want to make a difference, join the sector (and make some money out of it too!).

the government have more money now than ever before, when labour came to power the government took 45.6% of GDP to run the country, now it's up to 48.7% and rising. This is crippling the economy as the french and germans have and are finding out. Of course GDP has risen as well so the government is getting even more. Unfortunately billions upon billions are being lost in inexcusable bad management, carp decision making and self serving semi corrupt politicians (don't beleive me? ask an MEP what has happened to the £300million that has found to be "lost" by the EUs own commission- of course he doesn't have to tell you as there is no oversight).

Gordon Brown has made diabolical decisions and is only reaping the benefits of years of financial control and careful budgetry management by the old government. He has been very very lucky but i think the tide is turning- i do not know a single business that is not extending their terms- we used to get paid, and pay our bills on 30 days- now we get paid by ALL our customers between 60 and 90 days late. There is a huge problem in the economy but it won't get talked about because brown wants to be the next PM.

i feel ill just thinking about it.

[missingsid]

Considering the Govt's current track record with IT projects, a national road pricing/tracking/spying scheme is unlikely to be successfully implemented any time soon.

Doesn't matter the company that wins would run it!