Wolf 300 Tdi : is it a myth ?

[Arjan]

I have been told that the army versions of the 300 Tdi are slightly stronger - as in more BHP - and have been build to a better quality than their civilian versions.

Although I'm aware that they came usu. in 24 volt form, this claim is new to me.

My questions are :

1 - is this extra power a myth ?

2 - 24 volt worth keeping ?

3 - Is there any way, apart from the rebuild plate, to trace the history of an engine ?

Thanks.

[western]

AFAIK they are the same as civil LR engines but some are 24v for fitted for radio. all were built new at Solihull factory under thier military contracts, 

this on wikipedia 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Wolf 

as for engine history maight be able to obtain the production info from Heritage museum at gaydon, probably need to send them all the vehicles details -- engine, chassis, MOD contract, military reg numbers.

[muddy]

I know little but afaik engines are same power, chassis are usually plated top and bottom like a hd spec but the main difference is the rear chassis has a mini chassis on top to give excellent support to the tub. Very obvious when you see one. Also have 4 pin diffs in the rear not sure on the front.

 

 

[FridgeFreezer]

The chassis are HD (made by GKN judging by the labels), Miketomcat spotted one on the factory tour and we worked it out before the guide did

Mate of mine has a Wolf 300TDi in his ambulance, there was some comment about them being built to a higher spec than the civvy lumps but that might not mean any extra HP, might just be they are tested more thoroughly and perhaps they use the bits from the "fine tolerance" bin rather than any old bit.

I doubt you're going to notice anything about it compared to a normal lump in the same condition.

 

As for 24v, it depends, I'd say it's hardly worth the hassle of removing it and for some applications it can work in your favour. You'll pay more for a genuine alternator, starter, or wiper motor but most of the rest is just 24v bulbs in place of 12.

[Snagger]

Having been in HM Forces, I can assure you that their equipment is not built better than standard.  Probably worse, but for a higher price.  Exceptional items like the HD chassis are designed for a specific capability increase, but engines, transmissions, shafts and such will be the same.

[western]

IIRC Ricardo Engineering had some input to the stronger chassis/suspension & engine upgrades on the R-WMIK variant

[Arjan]

The Tangi chassis are very, very HD.....
I know that for 200 %
However, I can't tell you why

Thanks for the engine input. I'll have a think about it. 1st need to finish the Hybrid. MOT is June 8...

 

[Daan]

There can be a difference in turbo pressure; I bought mine as a crated re-power version, and years later I measured turbo pressure. This turned out to be the highest pressure known to have left the factory (15PSI), which is discovery automatic.

So that could well be the case with a wolf. I think that the reason to have more or less power is emissions related, perhaps the army did not have to comply to the same rules?

Daan

[Arjan]

Interesting reading Daan.

Thanks

 

[TSD]

On 19/05/2018 at 7:50 PM, western said:

IIRC Ricardo Engineering had some input to the stronger chassis/suspension & engine upgrades on the R-WMIK variant

I thought it was R-WMIK+ that got an engine upgrade, to a 2.8 engine (and auto box?). I don't believe it was a 2.8 version of the 300tdi, but I've no proof of that one way or the other.

I've only driven and worked on one Wolf though I don't recall there being anything externally different about the engine, other than it being 24V. With International / MWM building 2.5 and 2.8 engines in South America, the Wolf builds could have maybe used some of the changes from that development of the engine - forged crank, improved head coolant flow, if it made it to the 2.5 version? It always seemed likely to me that part of the deal for International would have been to supply 300tdi for LR for the Military builds, otherwise building a small volume of engines just for UK MoD and RoW vehicles could be quite expensive for LR while they were using Td5 for everything else.

 

[Snagger]

The 12J,19J and 200Tdi share the same crank, and that is forged.  I can't imagine that LR went back to weaker cranks for the 300Tdi.

[monkie]

Someone in the MOD told me they have slightly different fuel pumps. I have no idea how much truth there is in this and whether he meant a different pump or just tuned differently. To be honest I wasn't convinced.

[uninformed]

1 hour ago, Snagger said:

The 12J,19J and 200Tdi share the same crank, and that is forged.  I can't imagine that LR went back to weaker cranks for the 300Tdi.

cant imagine LR taking a backward step in engineering quality.... theyve been doing that for decades! compare 200Tdi to 300Tdi timing gears for a start

[TSD]

2 hours ago, Snagger said:

The 12J,19J and 200Tdi share the same crank, and that is forged.  I can't imagine that LR went back to weaker cranks for the 300Tdi.

Fair comment, I mentioned it only because IIRC it was one of the improvements listed by MWM for the 2.8TGV over the 300tdi.

[Snagger]

6 hours ago, uninformed said:

cant imagine LR taking a backward step in engineering quality.... theyve been doing that for decades! compare 200Tdi to 300Tdi timing gears for a start

Fair point!  Plastic geared wiper spindle boxes, too!  I'm pretty certain the 300Tdi crank is forged, though.