Snagger Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 It’s in a 109, so as long as those bolts can be removed (many doing Series retrofits omit them entirely), then the ladder frame comes out simply enough after dropping the oil pump. Done it myself a couple of times, after learning the hard way and drilling the SIII bell housing to clear the cap head bolts that I had counter sunk in the flywheel housing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 I don't think it's the crank shaft bearings, it's something to do with the cam area. I'm thinking it could be a cam follower, or a push rod. The noise came from there when listening with the scope. I'll move the 109 out of the way, clear the workshop and then strip the head and timing off, needs doing anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Sounds daft I know, but sound can travel on a 200. I had an issue with an odd noise I couldn't pin down, sounded a bit like a lot of things. It was the vacuum pump. I'd suggest chasing the noise around the lump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 It's louder near the water pump. I use a stethoscope, and it's quite good at locating noise. But oil is coming out the timing case, so that needs doing regardless. And, as I'm there....... Maybe full rebuild time? It's a higher mileage engine. How much difference is there in the cost of a short engine compared to a DIY rebuild, I wonder? Block, bearings, pistons and cam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I'd strip it as far as you can, while it still runs (timing cover off etc) a d then take another listen. Seems like jumping into a full rebuild because of a knock may be a bit premature, at least to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I thought the same - maybe taking the cover over will reveal an obvious cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 Yes, you are right. I'll take the cover off, explore my way in. Then head, then cam covers. See what I can see. But if all fails, best have a plan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Plan ? Nonsense, make it up as you go along. Works for me 😉 Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Hi mileage on a 200 is 500k 😊 The gradual strip is probably your best option Can you record a sound clip? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 Sound clip in post one. I'm working up the options. If I find something obvious that's wrong, and not too deep, I'll fix it and do it back up. If it's deeper (bearings), then I've the debate of recon Turner short block, or some degree of DIY full or part rebuild. There isn't much in the cost between Turner and DIY, if the crank, cam and bores are bad, it's cheaper to outsource to Turners. I'll aim to get to it in a week's time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Sound clips sounds like a normal engine running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 It sounds like a transit! It's a very loud knock. Anyway, I'll investigate further as soon as you I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 Now confused (even more so than normal). I finally managed to clear space and time to get this into the workshop. Knock, knock, knockity knock. Remove water pump. Knock. Mainly from the cam area, possibly the IP, using the stethoscope. Remove timing cover. Smooth ( for a TDI ). I'm going to have another look at the valve timing, maybe there's a valve cap or something stuck somewhere. What fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Any witness marks on the inside of the cover to suggest something contacting it? The other likely cause is the crank pulley, given that you have removed it to get the cover off. Check it for internal wear, especially the key slot, and check the pulley bell is secure on the damper wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 The knock didn't go away with the pulley, the damper, the water pump or the alternator removed. I think it might be the cam pulley. I'll check the end float in the morning. But I think that's a witness mark in the photo. It might just be a loose pulley. It might. I'll also need a new front cover. That's a crack. I vaguely remember this was already damaged when I did the belt the first time. It looks like someone had a bad time taking the cover off once, as the bolt head surface is at 10degrees away from flat, I suspect an angle grinder was involved..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yostumpy Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Wasn't there a thing, where the ( I'm trying to guess/ remember here ) cam shells? used to rotate and block an oilway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 I think so. I don't think that's my issue, the oil light goes out straight away. I hope it's not my issue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenden Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 28 minutes ago, Gazzar said: I think so. I don't think that's my issue, the oil light goes out straight away. I hope it's not my issue! Not to make you uncomfortable, but if a shell had rotated, then the oillight might not "see" a problem as it doesn't loose preasure, it just builds it up on the rotated shells bagside? /Mads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Yostumpy said: Wasn't there a thing, where the ( I'm trying to guess/ remember here ) cam shells? used to rotate and block an oilway? Yes, but the way I understood it from Richard Turner (and I may have grasped the wrong end of the stick) it generally moves in a way that allows excess oil flow and you lose pressure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 11 hours ago, Gazzar said: I think it might be the cam pulley. I'll check the end float in the morning. But I think that's a witness mark in the photo. It might just be a loose pulley. It might. It looks like a witness mark to me. Could be a loose or distorted pulley, could be a bad thrust bearing for the front end of the cam shaft, could be a bowed front cover. Whichever it is, it could be hard to find, but I think you’ve found the source of the noise. It looks like the belt has been rubbing the cover, too, which isn’t right. You could have a misaligned pulley that is slipping the belt forward. The chap making the Brtiannica Restorations videos had that problem with a 300 which he struggled to find a cause for. Eventually he found the timing casing was slightly buckled, putting the injection pump on a small incline. It seemed to have been cause by misstating of the bracket supporting the back end of the injection pump and is why they have a sliding sleeve for the bolt, a bit like on alternator mounting lugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Getting closer 👍🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 Thanks. I think so. Yes. I have the bones of a plan. It goes like this (some may not be necessary but the timing of the arrival of bits makes it wise to over order): Measure endfloat on pulley. _ Get DTI - ebay (Friday) Replace timing chest (not mega dear - and I don't trust the old one, plus avoids the issue of fitting the inner seal over the crankshaft) this week -Turners Replace bits of the camshaft pulley - thrust washer etc, maybe even the cam pulley? Get IP checked and tuned up to unleash the extra horses in the head (diesel bob?) Figure out a smarter way of fitting the alternator adjustment bracket. New timing belt etc. Sort out a decent air filter. Fit snorkel (eugh - cutting the wing, I don't like this - but I really dread deep water) Questions - do I need to replace the static idler pulley? What else do I need to do? The Waterpump looks okay, no play, no leaks. Thanks for all your help and feedback, it's really great to have my ideas sense checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 I always replace the idler and tensioner pulleys unless they have a known short use period . If you don't like cutting the original wing you could always put a later series3 outer on and use the heater intake ? great to see you have found some evidence to back up the noise cheers Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 You are right - replace all. I did think of using the heater, but I LIKE my heater - it works. I think I'll do a tdi cut, and use the tdi inner plumbing parts. That's a fairly well used route and should be easy enough to seal up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Ah , of course it's a 3 , for some reason I had 2a in my head . Your plan sounds good . Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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