R380 oil, opinion 75w90

[Alsace_rangie]

Not a "which oil" question, plenty of threads.  And a lot of info in Old thread.  Just opinions on the following situation.

So, time for a change of oil, '97 Disco TDI 300.  I live in France and getting the recommended MTF94 is not so easy.  So went to a local specialist garage, who sold me some oil from his bulk stock, in an un-marked container.

Did the change, how long did it take LR to work out the most awkward places to put the drain and fill plug?

Then I checked the bill from the garage and noted it was Yacco oil (well respected make) BVX 600.  However this is NOT MTF94 spec oil.  It's actually 75w90, and similar to Castrol syntrans multi.  This is quite a bit more viscous over the entire temperature range.  Not too pleased as the old oil recommendation was Dexron III, even thinner, and MTF94 spec was updated to a less viscous standard a few years ago. So my feeling is that going up to thicker oil is a bit odd. Plus getting Syntrans multi is easy and it's cheap!

Talked to the garage, and they said that this is what they use. Yacco BVX5 500 is MTF94 compliant but apparently Yacco had sent out s suggestion/recommendation to use the  heavier BVX600 oil to help with low temperature sync issues.

My understanding is that the oil pump in the R380 is happier with lower viscosities and that low temp gear selection is improved by using the less viscous (than 75w90) MTF94.

Garage has offered to change the oil over to the MTF94 compliant BVX500 so can sort this, but any opinions on using the 75w90 and if it should be better for low temp sync?

Edited December 6, 2020 by Alsace_rangie
spelling!

[steve b]

If the BVX500 is comparable to MTF94 then definitely get it changed , 75w90 is way too thick. 

If the BVX500 is not a direct equivalent then ATF will work well enough.

cheers

Steve b

[Arjan]

Give a shout to Landypoint - they speak English and have the correct oil.

Yes, here in France MTF 94 is not easy to get hold of...

I very much stick to it, Shabs P. told me off considering anything else..

[Alsace_rangie]

Yes, the BVX500 is the same spec as the original MTF94 spec. 

I don't get the idea (from Yacco) that going to the thicker oil helps low temperature changing.  Wrong way round I think

[Alsace_rangie]

8 minutes ago, Arjan said:

Give a shout to Landypoint - they speak English and have the correct oil.

 

Will have to call, they don't list it on the web site

[Alsace_rangie]

Hi Arjan,

now I am looking for it, I can get the Yacco online:

https://www.racinglubes.fr/huiles-pour-transmissions-manuelles/2361-huiles-pour-transmissions-manuelles-huile-de-boite-yacco-bvx-500-x-75w80.html?search_query=bvx+500&results=2

€24 for 2L, €5 for delivery

[Peaklander]

Don't miss those discount codes 😀

[Alsace_rangie]

oops, didn't mean to seem like an advert.  Never even used them, just wanted to expand the list of suppliers that us poor expats can draw on!

Posted the delivery charge as this is often the killer.  You find a part for as good price, but with 3 times the cost for delivery.  I often find delivery is less from the UK than from a France based supplier!

[western]

I was going to suggest Smith & Allen, I buy my mtf94 in 5 litre containers, from them, but just looked on the website, for export orders, outside UK there is a 50gbp Admin charge for orders under 100gbp.

[Alsace_rangie]

Just to round this out:

Seems that a some point Yaccco didn't make an MTF94 spec oil, so recommend their alternative as VX600 (not BVX600), and it was this that was put in.  VX600 is a 5W40 engine oil, but still too viscous.  Now they do make the BVX500 which is MTF94, but forgot to circulate the updated recommendation...

So swapped  (by the specialist garage at no cost) to the MTF94 oil, and much better change, cold and warm.

BTW, seems the BMW Mini uses MTF94 for the gearbox, so hopefully it will become less rare to get hold of.

 

[pat_pending]

Is Europe really such a barren wasteland that you can't easily get hold of a fairly common transmission oil that's not exclusive to Land Rover?

Genuine question as I've never had a problem getting fluids for anything here in the UK.

 

[Sabre]

15 hours ago, pat_pending said:

Is Europe really such a barren wasteland that you can't easily get hold of a fairly common transmission oil that's not exclusive to Land Rover?

Genuine question as I've never had a problem getting fluids for anything here in the UK.

 

Seems like a global problem ? Same issue in South Africa. I have had my D1 now for 20 years, and every time that I need MTF, it is a battle. Strangest case was a garage/workshop that had a 210 liter container of MTF. Sealed. The arrangement with the Texaco company (Caltex in SA) was that the business does not pay for the oil untill the seal is broken. And the owner, understandably, was not prepared to break the seal for 3 liters of oil.

I needed MTF recently, and it took me half a day phoning around, then waited a week for delivery

[Alsace_rangie]

17 hours ago, pat_pending said:

Is Europe really such a barren wasteland that you can't easily get hold of a fairly common transmission oil that's not exclusive to Land Rover?

Genuine question as I've never had a problem getting fluids for anything here in the UK.

 

Really common oil is easy.  But DIY car servicing is much rarer here so anything other than mainstream stuff is harder to get.  There are very few motor-factor type shops that will deal with retail sales, and the only real equivalent of, say, Halfords is Norauto.

There are online specialists, but most are not so good on supplying liquids. They are heavy in relation to value, and the carriers seem reluctant to take them on due to leakage etc.

So just going to the shop to pick up a few litres is not so easy.

[roamingyak]

I buy all of my Landy oils from the UK and have it delivered in Portugal, no problem, comes by truck so takes 4-5 days.
Bought from these guys. few times:
https://www.eurocarparts.com/search/MTF
"We are now able to offer flat rate delivery charges to most European Countries. Unless specified below, our flat rate delivery charges exclude any import taxes, charges, duties or clearance costs and we shall not be liable for such sums."
France: £4.95 in 3 days

Though with Brexit I think its all going to be stopped or silly import fee's so can't do it any more...

[pat_pending]

I never leave the UK so I hadn't realised things were that different!

I guess we're lucky here, motor factors are plentiful, I can get most parts delivered within the hour, occasionally later the same day or the following one.

 

[JohnnoK]

On 12/15/2020 at 1:54 PM, Sabre said:

Seems like a global problem ? Same issue in South Africa. I have had my D1 now for 20 years, and every time that I need MTF, it is a battle. Strangest case was a garage/workshop that had a 210 liter container of MTF. Sealed. The arrangement with the Texaco company (Caltex in SA) was that the business does not pay for the oil untill the seal is broken. And the owner, understandably, was not prepared to break the seal for 3 liters of oil.

I needed MTF recently, and it took me half a day phoning around, then waited a week for delivery

I use Castrol BOT402, which is the equivalent for the MTF94.

MIDAS, MASTERPARTS etc should all sell it.

You can also go with the RAVENOL MTF-1 75W85, which is listed as a BOT402 equivalent.                                                                                                                                              Call Freddie Stafford at Ravenol (021 447 3142), he will set you right, and they deliver anywhere in SA.  It's also available in Europe, being a German product. 

[Alsace_rangie]

Castrol BOT 402 seems to be obsolete, at least in Europe. And as far as I can see was not MTF-94 compliant, higher viscosity https://lsg-gh.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/bot-402.pdf

However on checking the data on the Ravenol site, MTF-2 (not MTF-1) is stated as MTF 94 compliant. Not clear if that's the old or new MTF-94 spec, the newer spec is slightly less viscous and came in sometime after 2010.

Available in Germany, but can't find it in France.  Can get it delivered but that drives up the cost a little bit.

So another good option!

 

[Sabre]

On 12/18/2020 at 6:50 AM, JohnnoK said:

I use Castrol BOT402, which is the equivalent for the MTF94.

MIDAS, MASTERPARTS etc should all sell it.

You can also go with the RAVENOL MTF-1 75W85, which is listed as a BOT402 equivalent.                                                                                                                                              Call Freddie Stafford at Ravenol (021 447 3142), he will set you right, and they deliver anywhere in SA.  It's also available in Europe, being a German product. 

Thanks John. I don't think I will need MTF again in my lifetime; with the Covid lockdown, and very limited access to neighbouring countries, my Disco travels very little.

[FridgeFreezer]

On 12/14/2020 at 1:03 PM, Alsace_rangie said:

BTW, seems the BMW Mini uses MTF94 for the gearbox, so hopefully it will become less rare to get hold of.

I've also seen it listed for Honda + Rover cars, I don't know if it's a common gearbox manufacturer - the Freelander used it and that was (I think) a Getrag box.

[tweetyduck]

On 12/18/2020 at 6:50 AM, JohnnoK said:

I use Castrol BOT402, which is the equivalent for the MTF94.

MIDAS, MASTERPARTS etc should all sell it.

You can also go with the RAVENOL MTF-1 75W85, which is listed as a BOT402 equivalent.                                                                                                                                              Call Freddie Stafford at Ravenol (021 447 3142), he will set you right, and they deliver anywhere in SA.  It's also available in Europe, being a German product. 

BOT402 is nothing like MTF94. It's way way too thick. The only oil in South Africa which is compatible and generally available is the Ravenol MTF2 which is approved. The other alternative is Liquid Moly Top Tech 5200 in the GL4 version not the older 3+ version. 

I would urge extreme caution using BOT402 if you go anywhere vaguely cold like leshoto. It might just be tolerated in the hot but if it's cool you will ruin your box. 

[tweetyduck]

On 12/18/2020 at 11:06 AM, Alsace_rangie said:

Castrol BOT 402 seems to be obsolete, at least in Europe. And as far as I can see was not MTF-94 compliant, higher viscosity https://lsg-gh.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/bot-402.pdf

However on checking the data on the Ravenol site, MTF-2 (not MTF-1) is stated as MTF 94 compliant. Not clear if that's the old or new MTF-94 spec, the newer spec is slightly less viscous and came in sometime after 2010.

Available in Germany, but can't find it in France.  Can get it delivered but that drives up the cost a little bit.

So another good option!

 

The MTF spec was revised slightly in 2020. I posted the sheets in another thread. 

[tweetyduck]

On 12/30/2020 at 1:05 PM, FridgeFreezer said:

I've also seen it listed for Honda + Rover cars, I don't know if it's a common gearbox manufacturer - the Freelander used it and that was (I think) a Getrag box.

The oil is specified generally as used for ZF 16K or ZF 01L or 02L very loosely. The Honda's specs have been superseded to Honda MTF II generally speaking. The problem is the lower temp viscosity with most of the 75w80 oils. Many are way too thick at cooler temps.