Replacing Alpine windows in CSW

[Troll Hunter]

As in the subject line, and a couple of questions, it's a 1991 110 CSW:

1.  The LR 1987 110 parts catalogue seems to show the filler strip goes on the outside of the glass.  Similarly for the two rear end windows.  For the windshield the filler strip is not shown, but Youtube vids I've watched of windshield refitting always show the filler strip to be on the inside.  Where should it be fitted, please? 

2.  After a total strip down I am now on the rebuild phase.  I refitted the two rear end windows with the filler strip on the outside, following the LR parts book diagram, and I've struggled all afternoon trying to reinstall an alpine window, you know, the curved ones in the sides of the roof.  My problem has been in getting the filler strip in.  I've got a new rubber surround fitted and it went in just about OK using the string method and a lot of washing-up liquid, but for the life of me I cannot get the filler strip, also new, into the groove.  I'm fitting this with the filler strip on the inside.  It seemed absolutely impossible with the filler strip on the outside, as shown in the LR manual.  I've succeeded along the bottom, but cannot get around the 180 deg curves at the ends.  I know other forum members have done this, so what is the secret?  Should I be getting/making a special tool?  I've run out of swear words, have no hair to pull out, and implications to higher powers have been unanswered, so I'm at a total loss.

All and any thoughts and advice will be very gratefully received.  I'm getting desperate and considering buying a canvas and stick set!

Mike

[Peaklander]

I don't think I have any photos but I made a 'tool'. It was a piece of wire, maybe a coat hanger, bent double to form a loop. I experimented with the size of the loop and then taped-up the handle end, so that there was something to hang onto and protect the palm of my hand.

The method is to use the tool to open the groove and push the filler in behind.

I would doubt I could have done it on the inside, the working position and access would have made it impossible.

Edit: replacing the seals stopped the water leaks that caused waterfalls down the A-pillars

Edited December 22, 2020 by Peaklander

[monkie]

It is an absolute sod of a job. The filler strip does go on the outside.

The idea is that with applying pressure (firm but don't over do it) the filler strip pushes the glass in place. You will find it a little bit easier with a looped glass fitting tool. 

The filler strip should be longer than is required. Start in the middle of the window seal along the bottom with the strip through the loop of the tool pressed firmly into the seal. Push the glass as you walk the tool forwards leaving the filler strip in place. When you get to the end, trim off the excess and push the last couple of cm in place. 

[monkie]

This is what you will find helpful

"Filler Tool - small - Global Products" https://www.gpat.co.uk/vehicle-glass-replacement/glass-fitting-tools/filler-tool-small

[western]

Recently replaced the alpine glass seals & small rear window seals, My filler strips are all on the outside, trying to refit it on the inside of the alpine lights would be very difficult IMHO, I got a van window fitter to do the alpine glass seals, IIRC mine have always been on the outside, as for the small rear window filler strip that could go inside but with restricted room to get the tool in the correct line would again be difficult, I did these myself & it was still difficult around the top inner curve of right hand glass around the rear door top hinge, why make it hard for yourself, 

I bought a tool similar to this 

https://www.frost.co.uk/windscreen-rubber-seal-installation-tool/

[L19MUD]

As above. Filler strip should certainly go on the outside on the alpine windows and you need to either make or buy a tool to open up the groove then push it in. I normally  use a plastic chisel to push it in and then if it has only gone in one side you can slide the chisel in the groove to the side of it further back where it went in ok and slide along

 

The only other thing that is critical that no one has mentioned yet is temperature ....trying to do this outside in winter conditions will make this 100 times harder. If it is sunny I park the truck so that it is in the sun to warm up the rubber before putting the filler in or if not possible I pour hot water over the rubber to make it more flexible

[paime]

+1 for the looped tool. I tried doing mine without one and it was impossible. Use the tool to push the big seal apart then tuck the strip inside it then move along and repeat. Takes a while but it is possible.

[monkie]

42 minutes ago, L19MUD said:

As above. Filler strip should certainly go on the outside on the alpine windows and you need to either make or buy a tool to open up the groove then push it in. I normally  use a plastic chisel to push it in and then if it has only gone in one side you can slide the chisel in the groove to the side of it further back where it went in ok and slide along

 

The only other thing that is critical that no one has mentioned yet is temperature ....trying to do this outside in winter conditions will make this 100 times harder. If it is sunny I park the truck so that it is in the sun to warm up the rubber before putting the filler in or if not possible I pour hot water over the rubber to make it more flexible

Yes, absolutely. I did mine on a hot summers day and not in the middle of December! 

[Mo Murphy]

... and the windscreen doesn't have a filler strip.

Mo

[roamingyak]

My 75 year old Portuguese neighbour has been a panel beater all of his life, he threw my fancy purpose bought tool aside and used a flat headed screw driver, both done in 15 minutes!
Best if you have two people, one on the inside to stop the glass falling in and offering guidance etc

[Diff]

I too did mine recently. As noted filler strip goes on the outside. Make sure the seals are warm. Lubricate seals with some ph neutral hand soap mixed with water. No need to use the string method. Make a tool for the fitting of the filler strip out of a piece of stiff wire by creating a Diamond shaped loop. Plenty of help videos online. Straight forward for one person from the outside standing on a step ladder. Just take your time. Be aware that early glass was 5 mm thick and later glass is 4mm thick. If you are trying to fit 5mm glass with the later seals for 4 mm glass, you will have significant problems. Sorry I can't remember the dates when the glass thickness and seals changed, but I am sure someone will know. 

Regards, Diff. 

[soutie]

I recently did mine and failed at first.  This was even with the correct seal tool. On a friends recommendation I used plumber pipe lube the second time round and it was a breeze. What I used was aquaflow pipe lubricant from tool station. £6 well spent.

[Troll Hunter]

Thank you, all, very much, for the advice.  I was obviously getting it all so wrong 😖!  The upside is that I don't feel so bad at failing😀!

First job appears to be to make/buy a suitable tool.  I do have a heated shop to work in but a pre-soak in really hot water will also figure in my preps.   I might as well try to do it in the correct sequence, so do I put the new rubber seal on the glass before trying to get the seal onto the roof metal, or do I start with the seal on the metal and then insert the glass?  Or is there another way, apart from taking it all to a professional?

Mike

[soutie]

I started with the rubber on the metal and then inserted the glass. The seal tool was about £10 off ebay and the hook bit that was included helped get the rubber over the glass. I then painted the plumbers lube into the filler strip void. Then inserted the filler strip through the diamond shaped head on the tool. Inserted that sideways into the void, straighted it and with the thumb pushed the end in then dragged the tool around. While pushing / dragging it round my other hand smoothed the filler strip.

 

Best of luck.

[monkie]

Seal on the metal first then slide the glass into the seal, this is where you will need the washing up liquid. Just go easy so you don't drop the glass! 

[Snagger]

Britannica Restorations has a YouTube video on replacing these windows and seals, so it’d be worth finding them - he’s very practical.

The filler strip must be external on the Alpine Lights due to the curve of the roof - there is no way on earth you’d get it into the groove internally.  Rear windows can be either way, but they’re best fitted internally, as was done on most Defenders, to resist perishing and also to improve security, but SIIIs had the filler strip external.  I don’t think Defender windscreen seals have a filler strip, but I may be mistaken.

[Troll Hunter]

Many thanks, Snagger, for the link to Britannica Restorations, some brilliant vids there, including the ones specifically refitting alpine windows.  I tried making my own insertion tool but didn't have appropriately stiff wire of a suitable diameter.  I ended up buying a commercial tool, for far too many pennies, so will try again today.

Many thanks, again, for all the advice I've received, not just on this topic, but on all the other questions I've raised over the year. It's this selfless sharing of information and experiences between members that makes this such a great forum.  Many thanks also to the Admin Team for keeping it so, and I wish all members a happy and safe Christmas and New Year.

Mike

[Troll Hunter]

Bu**er, carp, F**k and many other Saxon swear words that I shouted!  As the guy in the Brittanica Restorations video warned, "They're very slippery."  Oops, crash, and at least a thousand little bits of glass were on the floor.😞😞😞😞.  Oh well, carp happens.  Now, do I try to mold a replacement out of some variety of clear plastic, or do I order a replacement from UK, and risk it getting broken in transit?  Any recommendations, on either course of action, please?

Mike

[roamingyak]

8 hours ago, Troll Hunter said:

Bu**er, carp, F**k and many other Saxon swear words that I shouted!  As the guy in the Brittanica Restorations video warned, "They're very slippery."  Oops, crash, and at least a thousand little bits of glass were on the floor.😞😞😞😞.  Oh well, carp happens.  Now, do I try to mold a replacement out of some variety of clear plastic, or do I order a replacement from UK, and risk it getting broken in transit?  Any recommendations, on either course of action, please?

Mike

As I said, two people, one on the inside to help you avoid dropping the glass 😉
Hope it's not too expensive to replace.....

Btw, I painted mine white on the inside to reduce the sun coming in as Im in very hot climates.

[Snagger]

If you make a plastic replacement, expect it to scratch, go milky and craze with micro fractures as it ages.  I’d get a new glass replacement, myself, but you may need a temporary solution while it’s on the way - between Covid, Brexit and new year, there are plenty of excuses for slow delivery.