Aberdeen Angus Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 Hello from Snowy Sweden, New to all of this and in need of a bit of guidance. I have some cold weather and age related problems with my 300Tdi "fleet". In no patriotic way I have three Discoveries, Red, White and Blue in various states of disrepair and would appreciate some guidance/procedures/methods/tips to help get me on my way again. We have had White for a long time, but over the last few winters it has got harder to start, now almost given up completely. Symptoms, when less than -5C hard to start, and when it does, clouds of white smoke, smell of unburnt fuel, low on power. On normal temperature start-up it needs three turns of the ignition key to fire up, then is OK. Glow plugs fine, block heater fitted, lives in unheated carport where it can get down to -30C! Red was running well until it picked up on no4 big end- quite a rattle so stripped down bottom end, "glitter" in oil. Replaced shells, checked head, checked and slipped valves, tappets done etc(twice). Starts really well even at the lower winter temperatures, but lacks power, knocks with a smell of unburnt fuel. It spent 4 months at the local diesel specialist and came back no better, so I feel a bit on my own out here and have lost faith in this engine but the body is very good having lived in France and Argentina before I got it Blue was found locally here in Sweden two weeks ago. Its an automatic with a completely rotten chassis but the engine runs well and came with a comprehensive service record. My plan is to remove the engine from Blue and put in to Red, which is a manual, so have to take off the auto bits and replace with the flywheel and other gearbox parts to fit to the manual box from Red, including changing over the fuel injection pump. I'm sure its not that simple, so any guidance on this proposal welcome. I then intend to try the head from Red onto the White engine to see if that helps to rejuvinate. My problems are compounded by persistant low temperatures, thick snow on the ground and a lack of a workshop, however I have a good deal of optimism, some previous experience of dealing with 300Tdi's and a reasonable set of tools/jacks/spares and am trying to hiresome indoor space for a couple of weeks. What I need form Forum members is an idiots guide to how to go about this fairly ambitious project, as when I sart I dont really want to be rolling around in the snow for too long especially at the time of year when the Discos need to be earning their keep. And yes, I do want do it! Angus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 3 hours ago, Aberdeen Angus said: Hello from Snowy Sweden, New to all of this and in need of a bit of guidance. I have some cold weather and age related problems with my 300Tdi "fleet". In no patriotic way I have three Discoveries, Red, White and Blue in various states of disrepair and would appreciate some guidance/procedures/methods/tips to help get me on my way again. We have had White for a long time, but over the last few winters it has got harder to start, now almost given up completely. Symptoms, when less than -5C hard to start, and when it does, clouds of white smoke, smell of unburnt fuel, low on power. On normal temperature start-up it needs three turns of the ignition key to fire up, then is OK. Glow plugs fine, block heater fitted, lives in unheated carport where it can get down to -30C! Red was running well until it picked up on no4 big end- quite a rattle so stripped down bottom end, "glitter" in oil. Replaced shells, checked head, checked and slipped valves, tappets done etc(twice). Starts really well even at the lower winter temperatures, but lacks power, knocks with a smell of unburnt fuel. It spent 4 months at the local diesel specialist and came back no better, so I feel a bit on my own out here and have lost faith in this engine but the body is very good having lived in France and Argentina before I got it Blue was found locally here in Sweden two weeks ago. Its an automatic with a completely rotten chassis but the engine runs well and came with a comprehensive service record. My plan is to remove the engine from Blue and put in to Red, which is a manual, so have to take off the auto bits and replace with the flywheel and other gearbox parts to fit to the manual box from Red, including changing over the fuel injection pump. I'm sure its not that simple, so any guidance on this proposal welcome. I then intend to try the head from Red onto the White engine to see if that helps to rejuvinate. My problems are compounded by persistant low temperatures, thick snow on the ground and a lack of a workshop, however I have a good deal of optimism, some previous experience of dealing with 300Tdi's and a reasonable set of tools/jacks/spares and am trying to hiresome indoor space for a couple of weeks. What I need form Forum members is an idiots guide to how to go about this fairly ambitious project, as when I sart I dont really want to be rolling around in the snow for too long especially at the time of year when the Discos need to be earning their keep. And yes, I do want do it! Angus With the onset of winter very imminent I personally would look at the quickest option to get me a snow handling vehicle with minimum amount of rolling around in the snow. My suggestion would be to remove engine and box from Blue and put them into red and run it as an auto until better weather prevails and you can do what you want to do with less time constraints, this way your not faffing on with fly wheels and fuel injection pumps although you still have pedals and throttle to sort This is just my thoughts and I have to admit I have no experience of automatics hope this helps regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 I wonder if converting a vehicle to auto is the easy option? I suspect that there are enough differences in the ancillary systems to make that quite involved, sticking to the engine swap sounds much simpler? Elsewhere the hard starting is likely a combination of factors, but quick and easy without rolling in the snow would be swapping in the red injectors and checking the tappets on the white one. Do you have a compression tester? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberdeen Angus Posted December 19, 2022 Author Share Posted December 19, 2022 Hi folks, Thanks for the welcome, and the initial suggestions! Dont really want to go down the auto route as we do a lot of towing and gravel/snow driving and I kind of like the feel of things through a manual, if you know what I mean, especially when towing our two forest horses out to worksites. I have had the Red injectors checked recently and they are OK and have done the White tappets last week so the idea of Red injectors into White is a good one. I have a compression tester, but not got round to getting it out of its box, and figuring out how it works, also a dial guage for checking the pump, although short of hands to get it all done, although both tasks are on the list. Todays job was reshoing one of the horses, so at least we have one way of getting around in the snow! Angus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 I suspect a bit of fine tuning to the white one’s timing may help, unless compression is low. Advancing the fuel timing a little makes starting easier and tends to get rid of the white smoke, so I suspect it is running a bit retarded. That is done by removing the timing chest round cover in front of the pump slackening the three bolts on the sprocket and turning the big nut and shaft a little in the direction of engine rotation (same direction as the fan rotates). Try to set the engine at TDC first and check the timing of the pump - if you don’t have access to the correct timing pins, an R380 reverse light switch is a good flywheel locking tool (I have a dead one in my toolbox for that) and a 9.5mm drill bit back end is good for the injection pump. It is quite possible that the pump flange is on the wrong position of the shaft, though, making static timing like this inaccurate, and could possibly be why your timing is out and no garage has rectified it (if the timing is off). But at least locking the engine at TDC and the injection pump being close to the locking point would give you a good index to start from so you know where to reset to if it worsens. Tyre a small amount of adjustment at a time and be patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 I'm no diesel expert but personally I would rather diagnose what's wrong with the engine(s) rather than swap engines round - I struggle to believe that no-one on here has had the same issue(s) with a ropey old 300 in all the time this forum has been going, and as TDi owners are find of telling anyone who'll listen, they're supposedly very simple and easily repairable lumps My money (all 1p of it, reflecting my vast TDI wisdom) is on fuelling - injectors or pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberdeen Angus Posted December 19, 2022 Author Share Posted December 19, 2022 Thanks again for comments, I'm tempted to agree with the possible timing/fuelling issue as, now you have set me thinking, I had a similar problem on a Holder tractor many years ago when the woodruff key on the pump slipped-took ages to diagnose that one.... I'll try to get a methodology going to work through the suggestions prior to setting about moving engines- that is on the list as a last resort! Angus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 Starting issues would be: Injectors Starter motor Battery Glow-plugs Bleed back Pretty much in that order Unless it's an auto... Then it's EDC first, rest after. EDC needs ALL the five sensors to work to perfection It needs timing to be so spot on, it's more spot on than a spot on thing - then advanced by 2mm I'd look to fix white. Look, it's a 300. There's only one diesel that's better. Follow the simple rule of five Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 11 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said: I'm no diesel expert but personally I would rather diagnose what's wrong with the engine(s) rather than swap engines round - I struggle to believe that no-one on here has had the same issue(s) with a ropey old 300 in all the time this forum has been going, and as TDi owners are find of telling anyone who'll listen, they're supposedly very simple and easily repairable lumps My money (all 1p of it, reflecting my vast TDI wisdom) is on fuelling - injectors or pump. Put the handbag down and step away! 😜 I agree that swapping one malfunctioning engine for another isn’t going to fix anything. Having the injectors and pumps checked by a qualified agent would be a good idea, even though removing pumps is time consuming (it does present an opportunity for replacing oft neglected timing belts), but I’d try draining the fuel tank and replacing the filter to run clean new fuel and adjusting the timing first on the engines that aren’t making bad noises. Replacing a bearing that “picked up” is not going to cure a damaged crank shaft. Unless they re round the crank and had the pistons and rods out to check them all for damage and wear, replacing all the shells and bushes, then it’ll still be like a bag of hammers. Having now been run in that condition, I’d expect the bottom end to need a full rebuild. Since the automatic’s engine appears good, you can just swap them over. You just need to swap the flywheel and casing and injection pump for the non-EDC one on the bad engine, unless you fancy swapping the throttle pedal and other associated parts in from the automatic car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Maybe pick ONE engine, do a proper rebuild / sorting out on it and put it into whichever vehicle you think is most useful to have working, then pick the next engine and rebuild that... doing a proper rebuild (esp. if you have to get injector pump rebuilt & injectors serviced) starts to feel expensive compared to just playing pass-the-parcel with a stock of ropey TDI's (locally known as the Miketomcat shuffle) but I reckon you end up wasting a lot of time & effort shuffling badly running unreliable lumps between vehicles compared to just having something you can actually believe in for the next 100k+ If you've got no money, do what needs must, but if you have a budget, don't faff about. Your time is worth more than whatever you're saving by constantly half-assing the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Fuel feed pump hasn't been mentioned. In connection with the cold making all pipes, hoses and their connections hard and less pliable, opens for sucking air. A weak lift pump makes it worse. I am currently struggling with a 300tdi auto that is low on power and slow starting. I fed it diesel straight into the injection pump from a small plastic bottle and it started right up and ran fine, even without glow plugs connected, so clearly the problem is on the feed side of the fuel system. Whereabouts are you? I am outside Södertälje and have tools and spares for 300tdi. No heated workshop, though. Tobias 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberdeen Angus Posted December 20, 2022 Author Share Posted December 20, 2022 Hi again, Big Thanks for all of you to take time to reply to my somewhat vague set of problems, and for suggesting some positive lines of attack. I now have a bit of faith that I might be on the right track and have some experienced people that I can bounce ideas/problems off when I get to that stage in the weeks after Christmas. What would help me most right now would be a pointer to a step by step guide to pump timing and compression checking and maybe eventual engine removal so that when I start I am not messing around wondering in which order to do things. Tobias, I am near Leksand, Dalarna, so a bit away from you, but thanks for the kind offer. Might you be able to recommend anyone/company that could check injectors and the fuel injector pump here in Sweden? Angus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnoK Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 13 hours ago, Aberdeen Angus said: Might you be able to recommend anyone/company that could check injectors and the fuel injector pump here in Sweden? Angus https://www.dieselmeken.se/ They should restore your original power and add more if you want to.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberdeen Angus Posted December 21, 2022 Author Share Posted December 21, 2022 11 hours ago, JohnnoK said: https://www.dieselmeken.se/ They should restore your original power and add more if you want to.... What a wonderful forum, helpful hints from all quarters! Have had a long look at their website now and will contact them when I get my pump chessgame underway, Angus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 I would also say timing, order yourself a reverse light switch AMR3918 and get a 9.5mm drill bit. With these you can quickly and easily check the timing. Have any of them had a cam belt changed? as it is very easy to get the belt one tooth out and be almost unnoticeable during normal running and operation. At a punt I would say whites injectors may be worn, a poor spray pattern will make starting much harder. Once you have checked both red and whites timing and had a fiddle (try slackening the three bolts and sliding full one way try a start and then full the other way and try starting) If this does not help white start I would try putting reds injectors into white and see how that goes. The auto probably has the EDC pump unless its an early one, I would leave this well alone for now and fix whites good engine before starting an investigation on red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberdeen Angus Posted December 23, 2022 Author Share Posted December 23, 2022 Hello Again, Another 6in of snow overnight so most of the day ploughing snow, so no chance to try out any of the good suggestions gratefully received. Will get to it after Christmas and try to give the results(if any) on here. Many Thanks to One and All Seasons Greetings, God Jul agus Nollaig Chridheil from Leksand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted December 23, 2022 Share Posted December 23, 2022 Good luck and merry Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberdeen Angus Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 So Spring is on its way, at least back here in Scotland! Meanwhile back in Sweden its still-15C at nights and the time for Discovery jobs is slowly approaching. I did follow up on some of the suggestions from forum members and have made some progress on White, well at least for few days-changed injectors and adjusted the pump timing a bit and much better starting and almost some power and no smoke... but it only lasted for a few days then back to poor starting, so still a bit of diagnostics and adjustments to make. Meanwhile back home on Skye for a couple of weeks my old 200tdi which has been sat for almost a year started instantly!! Not the same story for the old G reg V8 manual which is beyond my capacity to renovate. It has been sitting for almost 10 years now, LPG converted with a spare V8 engine and autobox. It must have some value to someone, so if anyone is interested, its at the South End of the Island of Skye and could be free to a good home if trailered away- seems a shame to scrap it, but the big hungry crushing truck is due on April 5th...... So for interest, the picture of what awaits me when I go back to Sweden at Easter- the Best 4x4xfar....... Good Easter to you All, Angus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 14 hours ago, Aberdeen Angus said: Meanwhile back home on Skye for a couple of weeks my old 200tdi which has been sat for almost a year started instantly!! Not the same story for the old G reg V8 manual which is beyond my capacity to renovate. It has been sitting for almost 10 years now, LPG converted with a spare V8 engine and autobox. It must have some value to someone, so if anyone is interested, its at the South End of the Island of Skye and could be free to a good home if trailered away- seems a shame to scrap it, but the big hungry crushing truck is due on April 5th...... @Maverik any good to you? Very early G reg V8! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberdeen Angus Posted April 18, 2023 Author Share Posted April 18, 2023 Hello again, Spring has arrived and with the warmer days some progress made on the fleet. White has had its injection pump timeing checked and with the reconditioned injectors starts a bit easier and runs quite well, all things considered. I checked the compression and on my guage it was 1-4, 390,250,100,400 which might explain some of the problems I have been having! Any suggestions what might be a likely cause- head gasket, head, valves? and any further test I could try to narrow it down? Red's compression test, again 1-4, 420,420,420, 320 Cyl 4 was the one which had seized on the big end and although I had checked the bore and rings and ground in the valves I may have missed something.... I finally got round to having a good look at"blue" when the snow had cleared- turns out its actually Conison green with a nice Webasto heater, DEFA battery management extras, electric trailer braking system, fancy Thule roofrack and completely rotten chassis. Compression on this one was 1-4, 400,400,400,400 so that seems the way it should be. My current plan is to get the engine from green and have a good check over it on the bench. I think Red's engine will also have to come out, and at that stage I will decide which to refit. Bit stuck with White, it keeps going but I dont want to try it with too much heavy towing work until I get a better idea of what is needed. Any suggestions as to what I might try next? Angus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurbie Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 seems to me the headgasket is gone between 2 and 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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