Waffle boards- Different types

[Mossberg]

I am considering buying a pair of waffle boards. I don't compete or do serious off-roading but in the near future I am likely to need to cross a section of moorland a couple of times per week. This will likely be a round trip of 500m. I don't want to be in a situation of getting stuck so thought a set of waffle boards would be a relatively cheap addition. I have seen a set on ebay for £39 delivered.  These are 38mm thick and 1220x310mm. Before I buy, are there any points of note I need to look for or are they all pretty much the same?

 

[David Sparkes]

The main point I note is how heavy they can get when all those holes are full of mud, as well as having to overcome the suction of the mud when trying the lift them.

Once they are full of mud, where are you going to 'store' them in your vehicle?

Are you sure there isn't an alternative route that avoids all or most of the soft ground?
Will one pair be enough?

Regards.

[L19MUD]

15 minutes ago, David Sparkes said:

The main point I note is how heavy they can get when all those holes are full of mud, as well as having to overcome the suction of the mud when trying the lift them.

Once they are full of mud, where are you going to 'store' them in your vehicle?

Are you sure there isn't an alternative route that avoids all or most of the soft ground?
Will one pair be enough?

 

Tie some rope to them so you can pull them out with the car if needed. Banging them on the ground normally gets the worst off them

Also I think I have seen a for sale post on here for a few sets?

[David Sparkes]

1 hour ago, L19MUD said:

Tie some rope to them so you can pull them out with the car if needed. Banging them on the ground normally gets the worst off them

Also I think I have seen a for sale post on here for a few sets?

The rope idea is good, but this rather assumes that the car can gain enough traction, once off the waffles, to move both itself and the stuck boards.
All we know is that there is ~250 metres of suspect ground, and we 'could' deduce that if the moorland is soft enough to 'need' waffles then there is little firm ground to knock against.

I also noted the sets available in the forum for sale section, partly why I suggested more than one set  might be a viable option.

I do appreciate that we do not have a precise idea of the circumstances of use.

Regards.

[L19MUD]

27 minutes ago, David Sparkes said:

The rope idea is good, but this rather assumes that the car can gain enough traction, once off the waffles, to move both itself and the stuck boards.
All we know is that there is ~250 metres of suspect ground, and we 'could' deduce that if the moorland is soft enough to 'need' waffles then there is little firm ground to knock against.

I also noted the sets available in the forum for sale section, partly why I suggested more than one set  might be a viable option.

I do appreciate that we do not have a precise idea of the circumstances of use.

Regards.

That is a fair point. In competitions we used to have a short rope handle on them which would normally be enough to pull them out by hand. If not used one of the winches which may not be available here.

Banging one on top of the other normally works 🙃

[miketomcat]

You definitely need rope on them, I have buried them so deep the was no sign of them bar the rope poking up out of the ground. When full of mud I struggle to lift it, though dropping it several times usually clears it. I've had to winch them out of the ground.

Max tracks are another option I never used them though.

Reading the ground is your best friend along with walking the route.

Mike

[David Sparkes]

Thank you Mike & L19, I think the OP has been given enough information to make an informed decision, I know I have!!

I also agree that reading the ground is the essential first step, but it can take experience and practice (and mistakes) to become proficient 🙂

Regards.

[Mossberg]

Folks, thanks for your responses, I appreciate your time and sharing your knowledge. I did try to respond earlier but my phone has a habit of creating huge gaps between lines of text and then it just froze on my as I was about to press the reply button!

To answer some of your comments;

I will certainly walk the route first. As this is a route I will be using more than once I intend to position some subtle markers so that I can stick to and alter if I feel the ground is getting damaged. I don't want to p**s the farmer off by creating damage to the ground so will avoid any areas that are soft. However, I did end up getting my Range Rover stuck along this route a couple of times before (and I haven't used the route that many times!), once in a soft part of the moor (during heavy horizontal rain) and once when I managed to find a hole in the moor - you couldn't see this due to it being dug probably 100 years ago so covered in the wild grass. This ended up with me being cross axled  but thankfully had someone with me so by standing on the front bumper (and me being heavy) we managed to get enough traction to get moving.

I am not too worried about the weight. These will only get used if I get into soft ground, but I will aim to avoid any areas that are soft as I dont want to create damage.

Not too worried about storing them in the back of the truck. I will either take a tarp to put them on or just wash it out when I get home.

I certainly agree with the fitting of a rope to get them out if they get used.

I have seen the boards for sale by Jon W and to be honest it is that add that got me looking. I would happily take a set off Jon but he is 75 miles away so unfortunately the £35 for a set added to a 150 mile round trip to get them is trumped by the ebay £39 delivered.

I have seen the Maxtrax boards but I like the possible use of the waffle boards as a bridging ladder - also I don't have deep enough pockets for those!!!

Another thing I need to do is learn how to drive my defender off road! I have relatively little experience and learning some basics can only improve my capabilities in the vehicle.

Here is an image of the ground to be covered. It has a good covering of coarse grass and I do hope that I can drive sympathetically enough so I don't damage it. If I do feel I am creating wear then I could deviate the route slightly. And I have just done a google earth measurement and it looks more in the region of 500m each way.

I am currently running General Grabber AT3s but have some Insa special tracks, but I thought the special tracks may be more likely to cause damage.

Thanks again for your help.

Mick

 

 

[Bowie69]

Suspect you'll be fine as long as you trundle over it.

[miketomcat]

Fat tyres and low speed will be your friend there.

Mike

[Jon W]

Here I am with a blatant plug. I have several sets of waffles for sale of the size you mentioned, I'm sure I could do a deal for a couple of sets. I am in North Wales is the only thing but the forum relay can normally get things most places unless time is off the essence. Or I could look at delivery cost 

If you do use waffles make sure you wear gloves as the splinters can be nasty

Maxx tracks are another option but  I havent used them, but I have a feeling they are a lot shorter, so good for getting out of a hole but maybe not spreading the weight over such an area?

Thanks 

 

Jon 

[Nonimouse]

On 3/18/2023 at 6:15 PM, Mossberg said:

Folks, thanks for your responses, I appreciate your time and sharing your knowledge. I did try to respond earlier but my phone has a habit of creating huge gaps between lines of text and then it just froze on my as I was about to press the reply button!

To answer some of your comments;

I will certainly walk the route first. As this is a route I will be using more than once I intend to position some subtle markers so that I can stick to and alter if I feel the ground is getting damaged. I don't want to p**s the farmer off by creating damage to the ground so will avoid any areas that are soft. However, I did end up getting my Range Rover stuck along this route a couple of times before (and I haven't used the route that many times!), once in a soft part of the moor (during heavy horizontal rain) and once when I managed to find a hole in the moor - you couldn't see this due to it being dug probably 100 years ago so covered in the wild grass. This ended up with me being cross axled  but thankfully had someone with me so by standing on the front bumper (and me being heavy) we managed to get enough traction to get moving.

I am not too worried about the weight. These will only get used if I get into soft ground, but I will aim to avoid any areas that are soft as I dont want to create damage.

Not too worried about storing them in the back of the truck. I will either take a tarp to put them on or just wash it out when I get home.

I certainly agree with the fitting of a rope to get them out if they get used.

I have seen the boards for sale by Jon W and to be honest it is that add that got me looking. I would happily take a set off Jon but he is 75 miles away so unfortunately the £35 for a set added to a 150 mile round trip to get them is trumped by the ebay £39 delivered.

I have seen the Maxtrax boards but I like the possible use of the waffle boards as a bridging ladder - also I don't have deep enough pockets for those!!!

Another thing I need to do is learn how to drive my defender off road! I have relatively little experience and learning some basics can only improve my capabilities in the vehicle.

Here is an image of the ground to be covered. It has a good covering of coarse grass and I do hope that I can drive sympathetically enough so I don't damage it. If I do feel I am creating wear then I could deviate the route slightly. And I have just done a google earth measurement and it looks more in the region of 500m each way.

I am currently running General Grabber AT3s but have some Insa special tracks, but I thought the special tracks may be more likely to cause damage.

Thanks again for your help.

Mick

 

 

Avoid aggressive tyres - they break through the surface 'crust' then dig

[Mossberg]

On 3/20/2023 at 9:28 AM, Jon W said:

Here I am with a blatant plug. I have several sets of waffles for sale of the size you mentioned, I'm sure I could do a deal for a couple of sets. I am in North Wales is the only thing but the forum relay can normally get things most places unless time is off the essence. Or I could look at delivery cost 

If you do use waffles make sure you wear gloves as the splinters can be nasty

Maxx tracks are another option but  I havent used them, but I have a feeling they are a lot shorter, so good for getting out of a hole but maybe not spreading the weight over such an area?

Thanks 

 

Jon 

Jon, my apologies for not responding sooner - if I try to respond on my phone (where I often view the forum) I end up with huge gaps between lines.

It was your post that made me consider a set of waffle boards in the first place, but unfortunately it would have been a 150 mile/3 hour round trip to collect them. I never thought of a forum relay to get them!

To be fair I ordered a pair off eBay on Sunday and they turned up at my mams house today, so I cant fault them really. I would have preferred a set from yourself as I don't know if these have the texture on one side.

However, I don't really plan on having to use them as I will try to avoid any areas that has a likelihood of being too soft - but if I don't get any I will end up needing them! 

Thanks for your offer Jon, it is appreciated, but obviously for now I am sorted.

Mick

[Mossberg]

On 3/20/2023 at 11:49 AM, Nonimouse said:

Avoid aggressive tyres - they break through the surface 'crust' then dig

Thanks Nonimouse, that is one thing I intend to avoid. I have also been advised that lowering tyre pressures is a way to reduce the chance of getting stuck, but then I will have to inflate four tyres each time - if I feel I need to start doing that I will look into investing in a better compressor.

[landroversforever]

4 hours ago, Mossberg said:

Thanks Nonimouse, that is one thing I intend to avoid. I have also been advised that lowering tyre pressures is a way to reduce the chance of getting stuck, but then I will have to inflate four tyres each time - if I feel I need to start doing that I will look into investing in a better compressor.

If the ground is soft, then it's a huge help as reducing the pressure increases the footprint and therefore lowers the ground pressure. 

It it's something you'll be doing regularly, have you considered getting a set of wider tyres? 

[Nonimouse]

Ronnie Dahl , on You tube, has just done a very informative piece on lowering tyre pressures

I live on Sedgemoor in Somerset. The name gives it away. Out on the moor, the average depth before resistance is 370-400' (yes feet!). You can lose a tractor or swing shovel and it's not going to be salvaged.  I rarely lower my tyre pressures. Mainly because I'm lazy and can't be arsed with it. Occasionally I do, simply because there's no choice. Lockers aren't king - in fact they make things worse.  It's all about no slip driving. Low rpm, highish gear, light weight, avoid wheelspin. Prempt issues. Walk the terrain first

[landroversforever]

That's rather deep!  

[elbekko]

16 minutes ago, Nonimouse said:

Lockers aren't king - in fact they make things worse

16 minutes ago, Nonimouse said:

It's all about no slip driving

That's a very strange set of statements. Lockers will allow you to drive without slipping and breaking through the crust.

[miketomcat]

2 minutes ago, elbekko said:

That's a very strange set of statements. Lockers will allow you to drive without slipping and breaking through the crust.

He means no wheel spin rather than slip. Lockers force both wheels to travel at the same speed causing small amounts of spin thus breaking the surface.

Mike

[Nonimouse]

1 hour ago, miketomcat said:

He means no wheel spin rather than slip. Lockers force both wheels to travel at the same speed causing small amounts of spin thus breaking the surface.

Mike

Thank you Mike

 

Same thing with sand really

[elbekko]

1 hour ago, miketomcat said:

He means no wheel spin rather than slip. Lockers force both wheels to travel at the same speed causing small amounts of spin thus breaking the surface.

Mike

When turning, sure. In a straight line? Way less chance of breaking through with the lockers engaged, otherwise the least bit of traction loss will cause a wheel to spin. A lockable ATB would be ideal, I guess.

[miketomcat]

3 hours ago, elbekko said:

When turning, sure. In a straight line? Way less chance of breaking through with the lockers engaged, otherwise the least bit of traction loss will cause a wheel to spin. A lockable ATB would be ideal, I guess.

I disagree, an open diff allows for minute adjustments in speed side to side. Yes you have to be very careful not to break traction. A locked diff will force both wheels to spin at the same speed regardless of that little hump one wheel has gone over. In this instance one wheel needs to be near on stationary while the other climbs over the hump. It's tiny amounts we're talking here but enough to tear the surface and down you go. I've driven past people with open diffs on tickover while they're digging a hole.

Mike

[elbekko]

14 hours ago, miketomcat said:

I disagree, an open diff allows for minute adjustments in speed side to side. Yes you have to be very careful not to break traction. A locked diff will force both wheels to spin at the same speed regardless of that little hump one wheel has gone over. In this instance one wheel needs to be near on stationary while the other climbs over the hump. It's tiny amounts we're talking here but enough to tear the surface and down you go. I've driven past people with open diffs on tickover while they're digging a hole.

Mike

I guess. I saw the inverse happen in Russia when Mouse's locker failed. One of the wheels hit a softer spot, spun a little (this was damn near on tickover too), and dug a hole.

So, conclusion: tool in the arsenal, and depends on the exact terrain.

[Nonimouse]

3 hours ago, elbekko said:

I guess. I saw the inverse happen in Russia when Mouse's locker failed. One of the wheels hit a softer spot, spun a little (this was damn near on tickover too), and dug a hole.

So, conclusion: tool in the arsenal, and depends on the exact terrain.

With Mouse, it was low gearing , oodles of power at low RPM and super grippy tyres. You only need the tiniest spin to break the crust, and Ladoga marsh isn't upland bog. It's silt/humous/organis matter, held together with marsh grass, water mint and reed roots - none of which need to do much in the way of suppory to the plant. Gloop is like sand - so many different types

[FridgeFreezer]

5 hours ago, elbekko said:

I guess. I saw the inverse happen in Russia when Mouse's locker failed. One of the wheels hit a softer spot, spun a little (this was damn near on tickover too), and dug a hole.

Conversely, Jez found driving mouse with the lockers OUT including the centre lead to less tearing of the surface exactly as Mike describes, of course you have to tread gently to avoid spinning a wheel too.

 

Back on topic - I've seen a lot of the US overlanding crowd buy Maxtrax and from what I can make out they're one of those shopping channel products you "never knew you needed" but are in fact less flexible than a simple waffle board. Their main selling point seems to be they're bright orange so you can strap them to the roof/sides and advertise to everyone how rufty tufty you are but their size/shape seems less useful/versatile/stowable than a plain flat waffle board.

At least you can use waffle boards as a table or workbench in a pinch.