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Kemppi Welders


Shackleton
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Whoohoo, finally gonna take the plunge and get a welder after wanting one for years. Pretty much decided on Kemppi (yes I know there's cheaper etc etc but they get good reviews, seem to be well thought of and there's a a decent distributor here - a rare thing methinks)

So anyway I was ready to fork out on what they call MiniarcMig 180 which is a 10kg - yes 10kg! - portable unit with a 3yr parts & labour warranty.

But then my option was their more conventional 1701 Mig which is only a fraction more expensive but huge by comparison and about 50kg. There's very little in the machines abilities although the 1701 is a 170 and the duty cycle is a fraction less. I know the weight doesn't really matter but I'm short on space and my mum (who's an artiste) would be well into trying some sculpting with it so the small unit would suit her. I'll only be doing the odd bit of work, and mainly on cars, the machine won't be stressed.

BUT THEN, I basically read their full brochure and talked to a few people and browsed the net and am I to understand that if you're good at TIG welding then you'll create really beautiful welds? Cause Kemppi do a TIG/MMA version of the lightweight unit and it's supposed to be great too...

So basically does anyone see any good reason why I shouldn't go for the lightweight unit. Should I go MIG or TIG/MMA.

And as an afterthought I was going for the 180 MIG because the 150 isn't listed as doing aluminium although the distributor tells me he knows more then one guy successfully using a 150 for alu. Says it's a case of Kemppi underselling the machine to ensure it operates to the duty cycle they say it will etc etc. As far as a welding machine is concerned is Birmabright just aluminium?

Sorry for the ramble, but it seems a decent machine here is gonna cost me a grand... wanna get it right

George

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Tig is very hard to do beautiful welds at the begin heck i know pros that i would say their welds looks rubbish like a dribble of snot yet it has the stenth basically tig alllows u to control the heat more , as a example weld a 10 mm rod to a plate and feel the draow the weld on the rod , am only a apprentice and struggle with that aspect of it at work but welding box and heavy id say am ok ,id say best to learn mig first over tig and if u want to make it easy for yourself get a speedglass welding helmet and decent gloves ( i know dont laugh but it burns at full amp :( )

as for the spec of the machine go for the highest u can afford a dont know much between different units but ours a work handles it very well

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Have a word with your local welding suppliers,there normally very useful and will sometimes demo you a set or you can hire a set ffor around £70 a week to try it out.

My company use ceboras 150amp tig sets and Migatronic 250 ac/dc sets no problems to date apart from a card in a cebora.

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If you can't TIG then do NOT Buy a TIG Set - Buy a MIG Set

End of / Period.

See my thread on my TIG Course at Tech College - 20+ Yrs MIG welding I thought will some training I would "Pick it up" :)

......TIG Course - 12 weeks at College ................barely.........and I still can't do anything decent :(

Nige

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As far as a welding machine is concerned is Birmabright just aluminium?

George

Birmabright's an alloy isn't it?

I seem to recall a mag article that showed that as it as an alloy it actually low heat Ali soldered better than welded?

tuppenneth :D

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Yup, teflon liner, aluminium wire and an oversize tip, i've got those bits ready to go and will be picking up some Argon when the current bottle of Ar/CO2 runs out.

Heat is the biggest problem, short sharp bursts of welding seem to be the way forward.

I'll post my efforts if anyone's interested.

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If its portable, what will you do about a gas bottle? Does it only take small wire reels (I guess so, cos a big one would more than double wth weight!), does it have a replaceable torch (euro connector)? Are the lower amps and duty cycle less important than the portability? Just a few thoughts...

If the choice is between inverter or transformer, I'd always suggest going with the latter, even if space is short - unless you REALLY need the portability?

For ali, you can always use a spool gun. If not, stick with a shorter length torch to help prevent the wire sticking in the liner. Try to keep is straight and not coiled up / twisted.

Landymanluke - if you have a pulse mode on your mig, that might help. If you are really stuck, try resting it on a big lump of copper to act as a heat sink. Defo show us how you get on!

Cheers, Al.

:)

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Yeah the sales guy explained something about a plastic liner and slightly bigger torch or whatever as the wire expands with the heat and jams etc.

Thanks for the advice, think I'll go for the lightweight MIG. Oh joy :D

Use about 20mm stick out from contact tip also as the burn back is much quicker

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If its portable, what will you do about a gas bottle? Does it only take small wire reels (I guess so, cos a big one would more than double wth weight!), does it have a replaceable torch (euro connector)? Are the lower amps and duty cycle less important than the portability? Just a few thoughts...

If the choice is between inverter or transformer, I'd always suggest going with the latter, even if space is short - unless you REALLY need the portability?

For ali, you can always use a spool gun. If not, stick with a shorter length torch to help prevent the wire sticking in the liner. Try to keep is straight and not coiled up / twisted.

Landymanluke - if you have a pulse mode on your mig, that might help. If you are really stuck, try resting it on a big lump of copper to act as a heat sink. Defo show us how you get on!

Cheers, Al.

:)

Good questions

The reels are small 5kg items, I'll probably use a small bottle - not too worried about that. The gun/torch is built into the unit but we were discussing changing feeds for alu and the salesman also mentioned that the business parts of the gun are iddentical to other models so it's all changable/replacable.

The duty cycle is:

180amp 25%

120amp 60%

100amp 100%

This is the brochure, I'd be very interested to know what anoyone thought... http://www.kemppi.com/inet/kemppi/kit.nsf/...eddot_br_EN.pdf

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Sorry to be negative, but in all honesty I wouldn't buy it. (Its only my opinion - I'm sure others will disagree). How much is it anyway?

25% is a useless duty cycle. So actually you're buying a smaller welder than you think. In fact 120A at 60% is hardly mind blowing - thats roughly 1/2 the time on, 1/2 the time off at 120A - a lot of standing around! Its not a very well rated unit.

If the torch is built in, how can you re-liner it - they are normally inseredfrom the 'machine' end of the cable, even if the actual torch is replaceable (far less so than a euro torch - basically, its gonna be a pita if it goes wrong), I expect the 'official' spare torches will be expensive and will certainly be harder to change and get hold of. When he says the business parts are changeable, I guess he's referring to the tips / nozzle etc - which is a given and not a selling point.

If you do any amount of welding I think you'll quickly get tired of the small bottles, and probably small wire reels. I got tired of the smallest 'proper' size bottle which are a lot bigger, and I don't do that much welding. Its also much more expensive. You'll forever be running out of one or the other when you just want to get a job done.

I don't see how you store the cylinder in any useful way. Does it just roll around on the ground next to the welder? How long till you start breaking regs? And if you put it on a stand or trolley, what have you gained over the transformer-type welder?

Just how portable is it after you add a gas cylinder and a long gas tube dangling everywhere, the spare gas cylinder and wire reel you'll inevitably have to carry round with it etc compared to a nice little transformer unit on a wheeled frame?

On the plus side, it looks kinda funky... :rolleyes:

There you go - possibly outspoken, but an honest opinion. Hope it helps. If its any consolation, I think Kemppi are good units in general.

What are the specs for the alternative one? Its probably a better bet, but lets see.

Did you read the past threads on here about what to look for in a machine? Some good info there.

Cheers, Al. :)

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Al, didn't read the other thread here but will asap, had talked to pals who'd worked as welders and called the local Forge who's father served my grandfater et al but never quoted them cycle figures or anything.

I hear that many of the brands are all coming from the same factory in Italy and being branded with different colours as they go out the door. In that vein Kemppi are Finish and totally independant and this crowd that distribute them here are solid. Point taken RE parts though but as I said they're very well established and I don't think they're gonna dissappear any time soon.

The next comparible more conventional unit from Kemppi if the KempoMat 1701, it's E100 more expensive or so and seemingly is a fraction less powerful in every regard.

170amp 15%

76amp 100%

Thats way worse right?

Brochure: http://www.kemppi.com/inet/kemppi/kit.nsf/...poMat_br_EN.pdf

The original portable unit would cost me about E1000 with regulator, mask, gloves, hammer etc. I'm waiting for you to tell me it's way expensive...

I also looked at a Miller unit (150amp I think) and a Deca 150amp the Deca being the cheapest at around E700 (frickin euro symbol is missing on this machine) but representing Italys finest :D

I should say I've no grounds for predjudice against the Italian made machines other then what I've been told by the Kemppi salesman :D I'm a gullable Irishman.

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The guy who runs here http://www.migtigarc.co.uk/ is Gary and very helpfull

Have a lookie at the specs

Butters AMT 181 Mig Welder - £462+Vat

Murex Tradesmig 180 Mig Welder - Nice

Murex Tradesmig 210 Mig Welder - Nicer :lol:

Thermal Arc Fabricator 250 Compact Mig Welder - Used one of these - Loverely :)

Nige

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Have any of you ever considered the difference your natural resources have made to your country.

You lucky basts live in an industrial land. I love my country, it's frickin great but in terms of cars and trains and making power we didn't have a chance. Unless I come up with an innovative way of making pistons out of potatoes :D

What I'm getting at is that for every 10 good bodyshops or welders or mechanics or experts in anything mechanical that you have there, we might, MIGHT, have one guy who knows what he's doing.

Your people had steel and fuel and lots of other nice natural resources at their fingertips and so great things happened, bridges were built and big things powered by steam were created to go over them and eventually everything was beautifully refined until they were Aston Martins and Bentleys and around all that grew all the trades associated...

We on the other hand haven't had any of that. If we want a classic car or a decent landy or a classic landy or whatever we have to go to you guys, get bent over by the exchange rate on the way, pick up whatever we can find and then come back here and persevere with the meagrest smattering of guys who know what they're doing and all the f&%king terrorists who are wetting themselves with glee in this our 'booming' economy and absolutely fleecing us honest folk for everything they can squeeze out of us. Just cause they can and competition here isn't what it should be.

If I lived in the UK my '73 RaRo truely would be something special, it'd be mint. I'd have it acid dipped, layered with so much paint it'd be visibly wider, it'd be 15' tall and would be powered by a DIII TdV6. But cause I'm here and we don't have the spray guys and the enthusiastic aftermarket specialists and the specialist breakers et al my Rangey is kinda scruffy and I'm gonna make do with a nice Td5.

AND I'VE NO WELDER AND CAN'T AFFORD A DECENT ONE

EDIT: sorry that was in response to LandyManLukes disgust at my quoted price. But not directed at him :D I'm kinda sick of the cowboys here as you might have picked up.... pmsl

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