I really don't get greens.

[Matt B]

I was looking at Bio Diesel as a viable alternative to regular stuff, not from a "green - emissions" perspective as much as an "if fossil fuel runs out what do I do" and if I am honest a "wow 30p a litre" perspective and I came across a company that was selling plants to convert chip fat.

I was pretty impressed until I started to follow links on the site, the first one I came across was totally anti 4x4 which I don't get.

If these people are so concerned with the planet surely they should welcome any large engined diesel motor with open arms? Surely a Landy burning Bio fuel is better than one burning fossil fuels? Let's face it I am NOT going to give up my Landy until they wrench its keys from my cold dead hand and the level of bias we face does nothing but strengthen my resolution.

I can only put it down to reverse snobbery / jelousy.

What a horrible, ignorant society we live in.

I was seriously considering a plant but they can shove it up their a*s*s - one less green convert I think.

Matt

[GBMUD]

I was seriously considering a plant but they can shove it up their a*s*s - one less green convert I think.

Yeah, go on, cut off your nose to spite your face.

Or, you could go along there, give them the facts and buy a cheap fuel maker.

Chris

[Matt B]

Fair comment - I was very angry though, that is a toned down version of how I feel about the two faced nature of these people.

Matt B

[geoffbeaumont]

Particularly daft when small engines don't seem to like biodiesel much (probably because it's heavier than modern mineral diesel), and neither do most modern engines according to some reports. So your choice is:

1. Run an older, bigger, less efficient vehicle on biodiesel

2. Run a modern, small, efficient vehicle on mineral diesel

Even taking nothing but fuel into account, 1. is almost certainly better for the environment! Much the same enlightened thinking as you get from school run mum in her brand new V8 BMW, criticising you for driving a vehicle which uses less fuel, was less environmentally damaging to build and takes up less of the road than hers does...

Mind, given my recent experiences of biodiesel I'm going back to destroying the planet

[Les Henson]

Or go visit http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html and make your own, then tell the owners of the site that you didn't buy one off of them because of the anti - 4x4 attitude.

Les.

[disco_al]

i agree - did you see the LRX concept on the news last night? (was on Midlands news anyway)

they showed when Greenpeace invaded the LR factory and put the "Environmental Terrorist" labels everywhere, they spokesman said that "4x4's were advertised as the must have accesory, and the propoganda that went with them should be dealt with" or something like that.

best bit from this week is the greeny conference in Bali, how much greenhouse gas was produced to get them all there? and then the yanks are having a conference in Hawaii or somewhere tropical about there gas output too??? WTF??

most 4x4 owners genuinely need a 4x4 for work or other such purposes, and we are getting tarred and feathered by the green brigade for the minority that use them for school runs.

rant over - apologies for the slight hijack there.

[honitonhobbit]

I have to agree with Chris on this. The attitude of the anti 4x4 brigade is primarily fueled (no pun intended) by ignorance of cold hard facts and an abundance of little knowledge! There is only one way to fight ignorance and that is not with rash, ill thought out, spur of the moment tactics - use knowledege. However force educating the masses needs to be done on a big scale so get group together or you will just be a voice in the wilderness!

[Gromit]

I guess people come to the biodiesel conclusion from different angles.

You're considering it from a cost/convenience point of view. The greens (some of whom are anti-4x4) from a, err... green point of view. Each to their own, at least an alternative fuel is becoming more prominent.

If people want to go about believing that 4x4s are the sole cause of global warming and that the moon landing was faked, then let them.

If people are open minded enough ask questions, then I'll give them a few facts about Land Rovers and veg oil. Maybe they'll listen, maybe they won't. I don't care because you can't go around trying to change everyone's opinion.

P.S the moon landing was faked, just look at the shadows in the photographs.

[jules]

Its sole destroying

I was in Waitrose cap park while SWMBO was getting some odd and sods I sat in the car with the two dogs after we had taken them for a walk.

I old chap with a Trolley walked round my car then when he got to the front took one look at my ARB bumper and started to tut and mutter too himself I was watching hims as I thought he was going to hit the car with the trolley anyway he then proceeded to give me a dirty looks while he loaded his little town car thing which he stupidly reverse parks so struggles to get his trolley to his boot which he obviously felt was my fault for driving a Discovery !

A discovery which is muddy and the driver was wearing his work fluorescent jacket and dogs were sharing the boot with jerry cans red diesel as its is obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that I'm a builder and my truck is a work tool and not a fashion accessory.

Mean while the People carrier parked across two parking bays doesnt get a second glance

Rant over

[simonr]

I keep getting harassed at my local post office by people in the car park saying that I'm a planet criminal etc for driving my 90 Tdi. Most recently by a woman driving a Espace who had just stuck one of those 'poor car choice' stickers on my windscreen that look like parking tickets.

Her 'truck' was bigger in every dimension than my "4x4 Gas Guzzler". She didn't seem keen on talking about what mpg we each get, let alone the cradle to grave emissions! Too wrapped up in dogma to be bothered by fact I think!

Si

[FridgeFreezer]

I got kicked off the "All 4x4 drivers are t*ssers" Facebook group for calmly and politely making them aware of some actual facts and a few of the larger flaws in their arguments - seems they're happy to demand chemical castration of someone based on the specific brand of car they buy but don't want to hear even a suggestion that they may like to modify the focus of their hatred from a pointless and unhelpful generalisation to, for example, a broader and more meaningful pressure on those who genuinely waste resources.

If they were blaming (for example) black people for global warming (which is about as rational) I wonder how popular they'd be?

[Gromit]

I got kicked off the "All 4x4 drivers are t*ssers"

Oooooooooooh, must have look at that

[jules]

The annoying thing is it

The thick ones believe all the propaganda

My sister saw a Freelander with the wheel cover that simply said

Yes I own a Horse

Yes I need to drive Off Road

Yes I live on a Farm

So Go away

(Or something along those lines)

She thought it was fantasic

[discojmz]

should point out that it's more eco friendly to buy an old diesel landrover than a brand new prius!

because it's true, not just because it'd upset them

[white90]

Why give a Toss?

some knobs opinion that I couldn't care less about.

I'd be mighty peeved if I catch some save the planet numpty sticky anything other than £5 notes on my windscreen.

Jules next time some know it it starts tut'ing etc just tell them to ****** off, usually does the trick.

[FridgeFreezer]

Oooooooooooh, must have look at that

Facebook Group: I Hate Land Rover/Range Rover Drivers

As you can see, they took the mature approach of deleting posts they didn't like and kicking me off the group

[Jerseyman]

<<some know it it starts tut'ing etc just tell them to **** off, usually does the trick.>>

All that would do is reinforce the stereotype. Being polite will beat swearing at people anytime.

[gazelle]

Looking at the replies you have been getting Fridge, it looks like a jealousy based group, not a rational group.

She summed it up very nicely with the stereo-typical

There is no need to have a car that big! The only reason they do it is because hubby is at work (earning the money to pay for the enormous bloody thing), their 'little angels' (ahem!) are spending 8-6 at their £7000 a month private school and they think they have no purpose in life and use the tanks to try and make themselves feel important.

An income I would also wish to have!

I think their argument of "it's only for anti's" on a public forum like facebook is laughable.

Fridge - argument clearly and calmly put - Hats off to you.

Martin

[white90]

Politeness comes from both sides.

as for stereo types

the fools spouting anti4x4 tripe deserve none of my time or patience.

if they choose to voice their dislike I'll free free to voice mine.

[muddy]

John you ow me a new keyboard !

'If we're getting rid of people who drive big luxury cars and drive like a*******s then surely BMW drivers should be first on the list?'

Will. [draining tea from between keys]

[FridgeFreezer]

It's true though - they like to pick on "4x4's" mainly because they are the most easily identified (even if wrongly identified) sources of pollution, I don't think I've seen groups for "we hate cars capable of more than 100mph", "we hate cars with more than 100bhp/ton", "we hate people who drive around with the air-con on full blast in summer", "we hate people who shop out of town", "we hate people who fly to conferences on the environment", etc.

[jules]

<<some know it it starts tut'ing etc just tell them to ****** off, usually does the trick.>>

All that would do is reinforce the stereotype. Being polite will beat swearing at people anytime.

I would have to agree

As a Construction Manager I have to take the very rough with the smooth at work and calm and polite can be just as affective and drive a point home just as well, works better with a simple fact thrown in as well.

But don't get me wrong I have a good line in abuse when needed

Like the Construction industry is responsibe of 1/3 of all industrial land fill waste year on year

Try worring about somthing important and that you can actualy make a difrance in.

[Matt B]

I sent the site in question a polite e-mail enquiring about their logic and got a suprisingly well balanced reply:

Matt - it is not an issue of snobbery and no, we wouldn't rather high

capacity engines continued to use fossil fuels. We do have a very clear

green agenda which involves reducing CO2 emissions and the amount of waste

that goes into landfill as our voluntary efforts to limit Global Warming.

The majority of 4x4's on the roads are not what we term 'working vehicles'

ie their increased size, fuel consumption and pulling power are not

essential to the driver to do a job of work that more conventional, smaller

engined vehicles can do just as well and have done since our parents days.

We do suppply biodiesel to 5 landrovers that are an esential tool to the

owners (farrier, forestry workers, dry stone waller, small holder) but if

4x4 owners want to help the environment then, rather than use our limited

supply of biodiesel to power a car used for school runs or shopping, they

would be better getting a smaller engined vehicle.

We also are unashamed in the view that many SUV and 4x4 owners drive these

heavy, more dangerous vehicles as a status symbol and demonstrate a 'stuff

you' attitude to everyone else.

I hope that satisfies your interest. Containing Climate Change is something

we feel very passionate about and that it should be a universal challenge -

hence selfish and unnecessary vehicle users of all kinds are a hindrence to

the work that we and many others all over the world are involved in.

Leon

I still think it is a bit of a cheek telling people what they can or can't drive but the guy is entitled to an opinion.

Matt

[sheeppimp]

Fair play to the guy, an even measured response. Not one I agree with but I do respect his right to a different opinion to my own. At least he took the time to reply politely

[jules]

He is also making a line between working cars and fashion accessory.

He is being Fair its just people perception of what that is.

My mate owns a Demo firm and wants a Aston Martin but its no good for driving on and off site so he has to drive a Range Rover V8DTT (For some people it can be hard ) But would the greenies put a climate criminal sticker on a Aston Martin

I know its a extreme example.