carl hurst Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 The Ultimate Challenge ? That would be my guess?Please do not forget that we have been racing againist the very good Type'R' for two years now? And have not seen one of them take a major title yet. It will happen............ But when ? Jim It will happen jim,soon,but now the chalenge is leccy V hydro,mmmmmmm could be interesing,saley best get some practice in then we could be in with a good chance. carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVIT Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 hang on, are we saying that the vehicles/people that are winning comps, its all down to the winch ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl hurst Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 hang on, are we saying that the vehicles/people that are winning comps, its all down to the winch ?. Not quite but it can save alot of messing we ran 75ft on original mile marker to avoid bunching so this was a pain for me as i had to rig 2/3 times on a long section or you just needed that extra few feet so it can give you a good advantage but we will have to wait and see, carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl hurst Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 wheres every one gone,i was getting into this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Lets have some videos of the winch in action, results of testing and so on to liven things up.... adrian p.s. what is the ratio of your winch speed tp wheel speed when you drive assist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Lets have some videos of the winch in action, results of testing and so on to liven things up....adrian p.s. what is the ratio of your winch speed tp wheel speed when you drive assist? Yes indeed - post up some videos I think the most important bit is the connection between the seat and the steering wheel but that is true of just about anything I suppose! There are plenty of people in the world who need one of those stickers saying "All the gear but no idea" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robhybrid Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Hi John I have some ideas on your winch set up will have a chat to you at the 4x4 show. hopefully I will have managed to have a chat with someone from danfoss before then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saley Posted February 9, 2008 Author Share Posted February 9, 2008 Lets have some videos of the winch in action, results of testing and so on to liven things up....adrian p.s. what is the ratio of your winch speed tp wheel speed when you drive assist? Hi, Will put some video footage on as soon as we take some, or some is taken of us as for winch to wheel ratio's this depends on the drivers right foot and what gear he's in the same as any other winch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B reg 90 Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Hi,Will put some video footage on as soon as we take some, or some is taken of us as for winch to wheel ratio's this depends on the drivers right foot and what gear he's in the same as any other winch Not quite sure why asking what the ratio of winch speed to wheel speed seams to earn me the 'all the gear and no idea' tag...???? However having used a pto driven superwinch 525 winch for a few years I have discovered that they are fantastic appart from the fact that the winch pulls at a 3rd of the wheel speed in low 1st. If you need to drive assist this means you hammer the drive train, dig holes and generally proceed very slowly. If you have ground suitable to hold the pull via a big tree or your ground anchor yoiu can just bung the transfer box in neutral and the main box in 5th and away you go pulling 4000KG at ~ 60ft minute (engine at ~2000rpm) - fantastic. if only I could do this and drive the wheels........... Unless an hydraulic winch is very fast at low engine rpm, my opinion is that a hydraulic winch will suffer exactly the same problem..... I am interested to find out if you have managed to solve this issue, hence my question. Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D9OSV Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Unless an hydraulic winch is very fast at low engine rpm, my opinion is that a hydraulic winch will suffer exactly the same problem..... I am interested to find out if you have managed to solve this issue, hence my question.Adrian Hi Adrian, Hope your well. I'm think not mistake in thinking that its exactly the drive characteristics as a Type 'R' ? and you have seen those working ? Just a little info for you. The lads in NZ use Toyota pto gearboxs on there winches as they are cheap and easy to get hold of. Then they fiit gears from a different pto (name escapes me) to raise the gearing so they can drive assit with ease. Any more than that and you will have to go digging on forums down that way. But it might be worth a look. Speak soon Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddballrovers Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Not quite sure why asking what the ratio of winch speed to wheel speed seams to earn me the 'all the gear and no idea' tag...????However having used a PTO driven superwinch 525 winch for a few years I have discovered that they are fantastic appart from the fact that the winch pulls at a 3rd of the wheel speed in low 1st. If you need to drive assist this means you hammer the drive train, dig holes and generally proceed very slowly. If you have ground suitable to hold the pull via a big tree or your ground anchor yoiu can just bung the transfer box in neutral and the main box in 5th and away you go pulling 4000KG at ~ 60ft minute (engine at ~2000rpm) - fantastic. if only I could do this and drive the wheels........... Unless an hydraulic winch is very fast at low engine rpm, my opinion is that a hydraulic winch will suffer exactly the same problem..... I am interested to find out if you have managed to solve this issue, hence my question. Adrian Hi Adrian You are absolutely right about the drive assist issue, as soon as you can help just a bit with the wheels it goes much easier, to get an ideal setup for what we do here in DK a fast and strong pulling winch is not everything, because you need a very solid anchor point IE a big tree, we can here very very seldom use trees, we are not allowed to do so or there are just not any in miles. So in order to minimize the load on the Anchor, drive assist is a must sometimes, it is not fun winching up a 50 degree or more incline and then the anchor losses grip, we have tried it several times also on night stages uh uh scary when you all off a certain a rushing dawn wards and it is so steep you cant break or get a grip to hold it with your wheels one just has to hold tight to the steering hope for the best and start all over again, I have quite often with the electric winch we had last year, abused the clutch a lot but only at the last stages off an event and I must say that it makes a h*** off a difference when there is just a tiny bit off help from the wheels. We do also see some off the teams from Poland running winches so fast that you can not run besides them, they are often made off a diff that is welded in one side and then a drum is adapted on the other side and then rear mount, driven from the PTO, they are just so fast you don't believe it until you have seen it. So something that I think ought to be looked at even more than inventing new winches is a cheap-is way off making under-drives and I mean real under drives like the total ratio 120-150 but I guess underdrives is not so posch as winches Just my words based on my experience, but then again we do perhaps have different need here in DK as we do different kind off events Regards Ole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saley Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share Posted February 10, 2008 Not quite sure why asking what the ratio of winch speed to wheel speed seams to earn me the 'all the gear and no idea' tag...????However having used a pto driven superwinch 525 winch for a few years I have discovered that they are fantastic appart from the fact that the winch pulls at a 3rd of the wheel speed in low 1st. If you need to drive assist this means you hammer the drive train, dig holes and generally proceed very slowly. If you have ground suitable to hold the pull via a big tree or your ground anchor yoiu can just bung the transfer box in neutral and the main box in 5th and away you go pulling 4000KG at ~ 60ft minute (engine at ~2000rpm) - fantastic. if only I could do this and drive the wheels........... Unless an hydraulic winch is very fast at low engine rpm, my opinion is that a hydraulic winch will suffer exactly the same problem..... I am interested to find out if you have managed to solve this issue, hence my question. Adrian Hi Adrian, If it's driven via PTO you will have a similar problem as you do with the superwinch but not as bad as the gearing is lower in the superwinch we run them direct of the engine so the winch speed dose not depend on what gear you are in just the engine speed 60-70ft a minute at 2000rpm in low with drive assist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jericho Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Hi Adrian,If it's driven via PTO you will have a similar problem as you do with the superwinch but not as bad as the gearing is lower in the superwinch we run them direct of the engine so the winch speed dose not depend on what gear you are in just the engine speed 60-70ft a minute at 2000rpm in low with drive assist A vehicle with standard 90 gearing on 35" tires travels 410ft/min in low 1st at 2000rpm - a good 6x faster than your winch,or an engine driven type R setup.This still seams like a big mismatch in speeds. I'm not criticising your winch,which I think looks excellent,and is obviously faster than most(electric,hydraulic,or pto) available on the market - rather I would raise a question about the practicallity of matching winch speed to wheel speed - if it is a desirable thing,then we should be looking at lowering the gearing of our vehicles as well as increasing the speed of winches.410ft/min is too fast for a winch in many circumstances. So,could you please produce a range of alternative transfer box low range ratios,as ashcrofts used to make,to compliment the new winch .Does anybody still make them? Thanks, Jerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl hurst Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 A vehicle with standard 90 gearing on 35" tires travels 410ft/min in low 1st at 2000rpm - a good 6x faster than your winch,or an engine driven type R setup.This still seams like a big mismatch in speeds.I'm not criticising your winch,which I think looks excellent,and is obviously faster than most(electric,hydraulic,or pto) available on the market - rather I would raise a question about the practicallity of matching winch speed to wheel speed - if it is a desirable thing,then we should be looking at lowering the gearing of our vehicles as well as increasing the speed of winches.410ft/min is too fast for a winch in many circumstances. So,could you please produce a range of alternative transfer box low range ratios,as ashcrofts used to make,to compliment the new winch .Does anybody still make them? Thanks, Jerry. But in a perfect world this would be great,when you are stuck in a bog with 35s on you will not be going 410ft/min so 70ft/min will be more than your wheels are moving,I bitch with this winch and i have NEVER had any problems with the truck moving faster than the winch is pulling,if i need it to get the rope in faster i will put it in high gear, Drive assist on this set up works very very well, carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Ah, I know John's game ....................... drive assist with 35's at 1/6 of the winch speed to dig 'kin great holes for the next guy to follow in........ Carl, The winch is a superb piece of engineering and although you will have a limited market place, I am sure it will be a successful product. As much as I would like to invest in one, right now that cant be justified as I already have a front MM doing over 45ft/min...............looking toward the future that might get put on the rear and then one of yours on the front, but I will need to run a different motor to keep the hydraulics matched in terms of flow & pressure as I use one spool with a manual 6 port changeover............................ Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl hurst Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Ah, I know John's game ....................... drive assist with 35's at 1/6 of the winch speed to dig 'kin great holes for the next guy to follow in........ BUSTED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan kemp Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 hang on, are we saying that the vehicles/people that are winning comps, its all down to the winch ?. Its not all down to the winch but we allways do well in the AFC/Tay Trophy type events where there are long deep bogs, trouble is, there are not enough of these events in the UK. If there are long sections requiring long pulls constantly throughout the event, a hydroulic winch will do well, barring break downs. I have had only 2 failures with mine, 1 was the pump drive chain snapping (new chain on old sprockets) and the dog clutch guide pins wearing causing the clutch to slip out of gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Abel Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 A vehicle with standard 90 gearing on 35" tires travels 410ft/min in low 1st at 2000rpm - a good 6x faster than your winch,or an engine driven type R setup.This still seams like a big mismatch in speeds.I'm not criticising your winch,which I think looks excellent,and is obviously faster than most(electric,hydraulic,or pto) available on the market - rather I would raise a question about the practicallity of matching winch speed to wheel speed - if it is a desirable thing,then we should be looking at lowering the gearing of our vehicles as well as increasing the speed of winches.410ft/min is too fast for a winch in many circumstances. So,could you please produce a range of alternative transfer box low range ratios,as ashcrofts used to make,to compliment the new winch .Does anybody still make them? Thanks, Jerry. Hi just wondering what all the fuss is about trying to match the speed of the wheels to your winch? or is it because i don't have the problem with 7.6 ratio axles ? The only time ive found it useful is when crawling over rocks and on side slopes the rest of the time ive found if more useful to have wheel spin to clear the tread, cut down into harder ground and gain more traction to put less load on the winch / anchor point. Maybe a crawler box is the answer to your problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Hi just wondering what all the fuss is about trying to match the speed of the wheels to your winch? or is it because i don't have the problem with 7.6 ratio axles ?The only time ive found it useful is when crawling over rocks and on side slopes the rest of the time ive found if more useful to have wheel spin to clear the tread, cut down into harder ground and gain more traction to put less load on the winch / anchor point. Maybe a crawler box is the answer to your problem? Chris, I didn't think there would be much of a differance until I switched from manual to auto and could match the winch speed. It makes sense if you think about coefficients of friction as, if I remember A-level mechanics right, the static coefficient (ie speed matched) is greater than sliding coefficient (wheels spinning). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D9OSV Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 This is whole new can of worms and requires a seperate thread. However i agree with Jericho, in any winch situation ideally you want the wheels turning at the same speed as the winch. However,This is not the thread to thrash this out................ But, for those that suffer, underdrives and different ring and pinion options are available. Intrestingly i use 3:54(standard)diffs and a standard transfer box with my winch and match the wheel speed beautifully Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 A vehicle with standard 90 gearing on 35" tires travels 410ft/min in low 1st at 2000rpm Does that work out the same for an automatic, and if your using under inflated tyres then surely your rolling radius is contantly changing as is your gearbox torque convertor pressure affecting drive speed, and if you had perfect traction and perfect gear ratio because everything was fixed and not totally variable, then why would you be using a winch anyway? Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl hurst Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Haven't we opened a big can of worms here,but a question was asked today about this winch and there seems to be a bit of confusion about the gears as you may have to cannibalize a mile marker to obtain the planet gears,not so the winch has its own custom built gearbox and comes with winch,when every detail is sorted out i will get it into the magazines with all its specifications and stuff so everyone can see,and on here of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Haven't we opened a big can of worms here,but a question was asked today about this winch and there seems to be a bit of confusion about the gears as you may have to cannibalize a mile marker to obtain the planet gears,not so the winch has its own custom built gearbox and comes with winch,when every detail is sorted out i will get it into the magazines with all its specifications and stuff so everyone can see,and on here of course Never mind all that! What are you going to call it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsie Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 seen this winch today at the show,very impressive bit of kit and a credit to all involved.Had a good chat with saley about it and to be honest i think its a bit of a bargain Looking forward to seeing it in action Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saley Posted March 2, 2008 Author Share Posted March 2, 2008 We have decided on the name STUD 150 the daugthers idea, stud because it will pull anything and 150 for the amount of rope on the standard drum just waiting for the final gears to be cut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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