wozzer uk Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 Recently purchased 1987 defender with 200tdi defender engine inserted unsure about gearbox though the transfer box has ratio of 1.222 also has rear disc brakes off a defender. tyres 235/85 NOW THE PROBLEM. motorway driving the vehicle itsself is struggling to get to 70mph will go all day at 60mph but getting to 70mph or above is a bit of a worry also seems to struggle going up hills dont mind dropping a gear on A roads but on motorway you would think just press a bit harder on pedal and you will power up the hill ok BUT TO NO AVAIL drops to 50mph or so and would have to change down a cog and then screams it head of a bit to pick the speed up again. is this down to the gearing or what ? the turbo is running at 1.4psi so you think there would be power there any advice much appreciated cheers warren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakko Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 That's 1.4bar, rather than psi? Otherwise there is part of your problem... My 200tdi is the same (200tdi from factory, also on 235s), it's better now i've done the fuelling mod (turning the diaphragm etc) but 70mph is still a struggle, even slight inclines at motorway speeds start slowing it down, even with the accelerator firmly against the stop. I just sit at 60 - the gearing seems to short to allow it to cruise comfortably at any faster speeds. I just assumed this is how all 200tdi 90s are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Firstly, disregard the speedo, it's the most inaccurate pile of rubbish out, especially once you change tyre size. Secondly, it's an (old) landrover, it's not a speed machine. you make no mention of the age, mileage, or health of the 200tdi. My 200tdi 90 with 255/85R16 tyres and standard 1.4 transfer box will cruise at GPS measured speeds of 67-68mph, 70,71,72 is possible but really is not pleasant. Please note that as these speeds i am often in the middle or outside lanes, average traffic speed is only about 65 mph - car speedos are inaccurate too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozzer uk Posted March 30, 2008 Author Share Posted March 30, 2008 That's 1.4bar, rather than psi? Otherwise there is part of your problem... My 200tdi is the same (200tdi from factory, also on 235s), it's better now i've done the fuelling mod (turning the diaphragm etc) but 70mph is still a struggle, even slight inclines at motorway speeds start slowing it down, even with the accelerator firmly against the stop. I just sit at 60 - the gearing seems to short to allow it to cruise comfortably at any faster speeds. I just assumed this is how all 200tdi 90s are. sorry fella it is bar I could just do that the problem being going to morocco end of August with a 300tdi disco and a V8 110 defender that both fly i would have to set off a day earlier with my mates flying down the M1 to Dover although i do agree with ya it cruises at 60mph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 main gearbox is most likely a LT77, 1.4bar is a bit to high for a 300Tdi in standard tune, it should be 1bar, I'd check the turbo boost pipe for small holes as any leakage will definitly affect the performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 as said, speedo's are wildly inacurate. I have a 200tdi converted from a n/a, and with 235/85 tyres and a converted transfer box with 1.22 gearing I get a gps verified speed of over 80mph - haven't tried it on a good motorway run since I got the gps so it will probably climb a bit higher. Mine is a soft top ex mod and devoid of creature comforts but cant imagine that accounts for much. If gps shows you not reaching 75mph plus then somethings wrong. Is it a good conversion? a poor downpipe conversion mated to a standard narrow bore exhaust will throttle performance - also there are two types of speedo, one which is made to run on 205 tyres, another which should run with 7.50x16's - try and check against gps and see if you're reading under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 also there are two types of speedo, one which is made to run on 205 tyres, another which should run with 7.50x16's - try and check against gps and see if you're reading under. the speedo gets it's drive from the transfer box output end via the speedo gear, sounds like the existing gear is incorrectly matched to the ratio & tyres. have a look in the tech archive index for 'speedo drive gears' I listed the Defender & Discovery ones in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Rubbish down pipe 2.5 TD exhaust 40k Gold seal disco 200tdi 1.222 transfer box 265/75 MTs Mine is running exactly the same as you discribe Wozzer. I've had two different disco 200tdi engines in mine, the first one was sending me along at 80+ mph even with a broken piston ring, the second which is a gold seal engine with about 40k on it wouldnt even get me to 60. Now I've spend alot of time playing with the turbo, exhaust, intercooler etc it will do 60 reliabily but still no go for 70. I'm going to sort the exhaust down pipe out, take out the middle scilencer and reduce the exhaust to the lewis side exit one. Fit new intercooler pipes and a large intercooler and adjust the fueling to suit. But the annoying thing is that the old engine was doing 80mph + with all the old bits and a 2.5 petrol exhaust (tiny bore) My GPS shows that the speedo is over reading by about 4mph at 60 (which is goodfor speed cameras ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrfarmer Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Hi my 90 with the old TD engine would only do 55 but pull up a 1:3 hill in 5th gear on 205's now with the TDI engine will get to 65+ but i have to change down to 4th up the hill on 235/85's and i'd say my speedo is very inacurate but never got round to finding out (never got cort speeding mind). TIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotian Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 I find that I can get up a pretty steep hill in 5th and keep going up it at 40 mph forever. But when I'm on the motorway the slightest incline on the road brings me to 50 mpg and I find myself having to drop to 4th just to try and maintain a respectable motorway speed of about 55 60. Can people post their top speed in different gears and what engine, tyres and transfer box they have. With my 200 tdi with 1.222 TF box and 265/75 tyres I can get to 60 in 4th (just) and 45/50 in 3rd. It might be interesting to see the differences and find out who has a problem or just a bad configuration of drive train if we all say what we get.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgnas Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Will not be changing my TD anytime soon then! Speedo is only ~3% out on 235s Can do a genuine 75mph on the motorway, trundles nicely at 65mph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimfoo Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Hahaha, nice to know I could beat you in my Series. :P :P Probably the governor is limiting your top speed as it cuts fuel at higher RPM's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Slap in a nice big V8.... Mine struggles to climb much above 97mph on the GPS in overdrive but it'll sit at 70 all day.. Well apart from the occational fuel stop.. Sorry, couldn't resist.... The diseasel types on here always take the opportunity to slate us poor old V8 owbers... Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 V8 Freak ------poor old V8 owbers... you poor only cos you've a big V8 to feed & have you got a cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 My newly acquired Disco 200tdi was only capable of 70 on the flat and 60 up motorway grades - until I discovered (today) that the waste-gate was half open (and stuck solid) and that the actuator was not mounted (it was just flapping about on the end of it's tie-rod and pipe). So after I freed the gate off and mounted the actuator I went out and hit 80 still accelerating before backing off. To say it has transformed the motor would be an understatement... There's a nice turbo whistle now too I found that you can check the action of the waste-gate by using an airline - NOT applied directly, but by moving the nozzle slowly closer while blowing until the rod moved. All speeds verified by GPS. (Speedo was 3mph over at 70, sorry don't know what tyres - and its dark and raining so I'm not going to look now...) TwoSheds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 It's a nice feeling to find something wrong, fix it and then go out and feel the difference straightaway Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozzer uk Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 I find that I can get up a pretty steep hill in 5th and keep going up it at 40 mph forever. But when I'm on the motorway the slightest incline on the road brings me to 50 mpg and I find myself having to drop to 4th just to try and maintain a respectable motorway speed of about 55 60.Can people post their top speed in different gears and what engine, tyres and transfer box they have. With my 200 tdi with 1.222 TF box and 265/75 tyres I can get to 60 in 4th (just) and 45/50 in 3rd. It might be interesting to see the differences and find out who has a problem or just a bad configuration of drive train if we all say what we get.. scotian my gear speeds are the same as yours fella, lots of replies on query next nice day i get sunny no downpours as its hard working outside on drive getting Mildly miffed wet through check everything that people have said as it now gives a rough idea what to look for. cheers everyone !!!!! warren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozzer uk Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 Rubbish down pipe2.5 TD exhaust 40k Gold seal disco 200tdi 1.222 transfer box 265/75 MTs Mine is running exactly the same as you discribe Wozzer. I've had two different disco 200tdi engines in mine, the first one was sending me along at 80+ mph even with a broken piston ring, the second which is a gold seal engine with about 40k on it wouldnt even get me to 60. Now I've spend alot of time playing with the turbo, exhaust, intercooler etc it will do 60 reliabily but still no go for 70. I'm going to sort the exhaust down pipe out, take out the middle scilencer and reduce the exhaust to the lewis side exit one. Fit new intercooler pipes and a large intercooler and adjust the fueling to suit. But the annoying thing is that the old engine was doing 80mph + with all the old bits and a 2.5 petrol exhaust (tiny bore) My GPS shows that the speedo is over reading by about 4mph at 60 (which is goodfor speed cameras ) my gps reading when doing steady 50 on speedo GPS saying 48mph going to check exhaust though im sure its a TDi one and not a TD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozzer uk Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 Firstly, disregard the speedo, it's the most inaccurate pile of rubbish out, especially once you change tyre size.Secondly, it's an (old) landrover, it's not a speed machine. you make no mention of the age, mileage, or health of the 200tdi. My 200tdi 90 with 255/85R16 tyres and standard 1.4 transfer box will cruise at GPS measured speeds of 67-68mph, 70,71,72 is possible but really is not pleasant. Please note that as these speeds i am often in the middle or outside lanes, average traffic speed is only about 65 mph - car speedos are inaccurate too. age 1987 getting on a bit now mileage not known on this engine just would like to keep up going abroad with the old girl (Morocco cant wait) lots of mileage to do got to keep up with 200tdi disco and a blinkin V8 110 Defender which goes like stink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimfoo Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Do have a fresh fuel filter as well, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 <sigh> I'm have a different problem to V8 Freak. Although my speedo is accuate, with my V8 90 I find I just have to change up to 4th from 3rd at around 75MPH as the noise generally gets a bit much (mind you so does the fuel consumption ) Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 going to morocco end of August with a 300tdi disco and a V8 110 defender that both fly Remember the hare and the tortoise? Just stop to top up every 200 miles and cruise past the V8 at each of his 100 mile stops. Seroiusly, when I got my Tdi the one thing I noticed when driving in convoy with my mates was how none of the V8 owners could afford to drive any distance at more than 60mph so it was me who was slowed down by them! My 200Tdi 90 with 1.4 transfer and 33" tyres would struggle up to about 80-85mph on the GPS on a good day on a level grade. In reality I rarely did more than about 65 in an effort to keep the fuel economy in the 20s rather than the teens. I once did a trip at 70-75 from the SW to the SE and got 17mpg. I have had V8 Rangies do better than that! (18mpg:)) Your problem could be down to a blocked exhaust or similar or it could be a lack of fuel. Do you get any smoke? You should do on full throttle. Have you tries any pump adjustments? Have you checked that the pump diaphragm is intact? IIRC 1.4 bar is quite high. Try removing the exhaust from the downpipe back. If that improves things then you are looking at an exhaust restriction/blockage. A 1.2 transfer ratio may hamper efforts to go fast as the Defender simply lacks the aerodynamics of a Discovery. A 1.2 with 205s may be OK but bigger tyres make a big difference. Good luck Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozzer uk Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 Do have a fresh fuel filter as well, don't you? yep fuel and air filter changed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonb Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 yep fuel and air filter changed Check the basics... With engine off, throttle pedal to floor, does throttle lever on injector pump open fully against the stop? If not adjust cable at injector pump end. The 300Tdi has a knurled nut adjuster, IIRC the 200Tdi is similar. What mileage have you done? after around 100k miles the lift pumps get weak which can cause fuelling problems. Is the fuel tank vent clear? - No suck/whoosh sound when you remove filler cap? Have you measured the boost pressure at the wastegate. For a 200Tdi you should get IIRC 0.85 bar with foot to floor in all gears. Finally are you sure your transfer is 1.2 ratio??? Check the serial number against Ashcrofts webpage to make sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakko Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Do you get any smoke? You should do on full throttle. Sorry if i'm slightly hijacking your thread Wozzer, but I believe we have similar issues. Other than at start-up for a few seconds my 200tdi is NEVER smokey. Even at full throttle on the motorway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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