Mondo Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Hi there, I own an ex MOD Defender XD90 and the tracking (or [front] wheel alignment) needs setting, I believe the front right wheel is slightly out of track. It had ball joints done about a year back, but I believe the front end track most certainly requires attention due to the wear rate on the front right tyre. It may need new steering or ball joints doing but this is not an issue, I am quite prepared to pay to get this done properly as I have neither the time, place or tools to do this type of work at home Here's the hard part, who can I trust to do this? Do I have to refer myself to a Land Rover workshop, or are there any franchises that can do this type of work correctly? Personally I don't trust the generic Kwik-Fit, ATS type of franchises to undertake this task. I believe that a specialist should do this Does anyone know a workshop in the Bristol area, or even the Aylesbury area (which is where I work) that can be trusted to tackle a Defender's front end? Some advice on this matter would be appreciated Thanks in advance Raymond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Do a serch under "Tracking" I did a post as to how to DIY it and you can then do it for free Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 get some string enought go right round the vehicle at hub height, tie one end to tow hitch, then walk round lieing the string at centre of hub height & tie off when you get back to the start point, the string should be touching the sidewall of every tyre in front & behind the hub centre, if one of the front tyres sidewall is not touching, adjust the trackrod [behind the axle] until it does, you'll soon see which way to move it, I've seen this done on a Austin Healey 3litre during a classis car road event, it works every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Early90 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Hi, i had mine done here, http://www.protyre.co.uk/outletsdesc.aspx?id=11060 Slough branch....there`s one in Bristol too. They supplied wheels and tyres to me recently so i had them done at the same time. Proper equipment and you can watch it all happen in real life and see the adjustments on the monitor in the waiting room. Highly recommended. John edited to add link String! brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I am quite prepared to pay to get this done properly as I have neither the time, place or tools to do this type of work at home ^^^^ I cannot suggest anyone local to either location, but I would suggest that the big tyre fitting companies (ATS, Kwik-Fit et al) are quite able to do this work. They may not be LR specialists but tracking is one of their specialities and with the number of LRs around, they will know what they are doing and will have experience of doing it. The one thing that does give them trouble is really stuck track rods and drag links. I would suggest that before taking it in, if you can, you make sure that the track rods can be turned easily once the clamps are free'd off.. Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondo Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 Thanks, So, if I undrstand correctly, a Defender has a neutral, 0° front track, as in zero toe in and zero toe out If that's the case the string method is easy. What about camber? My comment about ball/steering joints possibly needing replacement were due to the fact I suspect I have a camber issue too, this is brought about by the wear pattern on the front right tyre and also that I often get a "friction" type noise from the front right tyre when turning the steering wheel whilst the vehicle is stationary - unless G90 tires are just noisy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Yes, all 90/110 regardless of age use 0 degress the noise could be the rear inner of the tyre catching the radius arm, to stop that adjust the lock stops on the front inner face of the swivles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 0 degrees might work in real life, I simply don't know. But my green book says 1,2 to 2,4 mm toe out... And that is the setting I have been using for at least 50.000 miles by now. Camber and caster is "built in" and can not be adjusted. If the angles are wrong, there is something worn or bent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Should be 0 to 2 degrees toe out toe out included angle 0 to 0 -20' camber 0 degree castor 3 degrees -- level ground,unladen, 5 gallons of fuel in tank,rock front of vehicle up/down, allow to settle to take up normal at rest position. all from Defender workshop manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litch Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I have been using the Bletchley branch of 'Just Tyres' in Milton Keynes for years now and totally trust them, checks are free and adjustment is about £20. A couple of years ago I repaced the steering-rods & TRE's on my 90 and my mistake was that for once I decided to use my local garage to do the tracking (for convenience). For a week or so afterwards I felt sure that something was not quite right (the steering & handling on my 90 are normally top knotch so it was quite reasonable that anything less than perfect would be noticable) so I took it into Just Tyres and they discovered that the tracking as was just fraction out (probably caused by the locknuts on the TRE's being tightened after the jig had been removed and no final check being made). Needless to say I got my money back from the local garage and vowed only to use Just Tyres in future. A good point to note is that even though you think your tracking is 'ok', being even slightly out will make a huge difference to the life-span of the tyres and could take many thousands of miles off their life (been there, done that) so you may not be saving money in the long run. The earlier point about all fastenings being free to turn is also very valid, they are not an engineering workshop and if the TRE's are siezed they do not have the facilities to free them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Latest LR spec says 0 to -1, so neutral to 1 of toe in. From the local franchised dealer. Rave says 0 to 2 toe out, as Ralph says. HTH Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 , but I believe the front end track most certainly requires attention due to the wear rate on the front right tyre. It may need new steering or ball joints doing but this is not an issue, Does anyone know a workshop in the Bristol area, or even the Aylesbury area (which is where I work) If the tracking is out then the wear pattern will be similar on both front tyres. If you are doing Bristol to Aylesbury daily not surprising you are cocerned about tyre wear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondo Posted July 8, 2008 Author Share Posted July 8, 2008 If you are doing Bristol to Aylesbury daily not surprising you are cocerned about tyre wear! Fortunately my daily commutes from Bristol to Aylesbury or Staffordshire is done in my company car, I could never subject my beloved Land Rover to that sort of daily haul as it would kill itI would drive it Aylesbury for an alignment/tracking job though. If the tracking is out then the wear pattern will be similar on both front tyres. The G90 tyres are a soft compound and do wear fairly quick, however the tire wear is not even at all, hence my suspicions on the camber issue. If the wear was even, I'd give the string alignment method a go.I realise this is a little more serious than a toe in/out issue, hence the Thread asking for advice on where to send the vehicle to get this looked at by someone reputable and trustworthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I'd taker it to a small independant landrover garage, or to a tyre place that does larger commercial stuff.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OilIT Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Hi, i had mine done here, http://www.protyre.co.uk/outletsdesc.aspx?id=11060 Slough branch....there`s one in Bristol too. They supplied wheels and tyres to me recently so i had them done at the same time. Proper equipment and you can watch it all happen in real life and see the adjustments on the monitor in the waiting room. Highly recommended. This is the thing though = I have used these guys twice (used to work next door to them) and they didnt do a good job - the steering wheel wasnt even ligned up. I have since started using the local famil owned garage where the guy has a reputation that he cares about. But as mentioned before ats et al this is their daily bread so you should be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Degrees versus mm... Not that easy to translate for a woodshed mechanic, seems that a proper wheelaligner is needed for a proper job. And for a real alignment, even the tracking of the rear wheels have to be included in the calculations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Twig Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Mayborn 4 x 4 just off the lower bristol road between bristol and bath ain't bad If he's replacing stuff though he tends to use pattern parts which break, specify that you want "proper" parts - just ask my front bushes how I know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondo Posted July 9, 2008 Author Share Posted July 9, 2008 After reading all the helpful replies in this Thread I came to the conclusion there is no convenient drive in, fix if needed and drive out solution to a worn joint induced tracking and camber issue. It's also a job I cannot undertake myself either. I decided to consult the chap I usually use for my Land Rover maintenance. He will attend to any worn parts and get the vehicle over to the people he uses for alignment jobs. Thanks guys, I am now content with my choice of sticking with my self-employed LR qualified specialist who has done various jobs on my XD90 in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcowz Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I popped into our local Quickfit last night as my tracking needs done after my half shaft repair. It isn't far out, but needs doing. Also, now I have 265/75 tyres on, I get rubbing on full lock but only in one direction and both my stops are exactly the same. The side that rubs is the one I worked on. Before I adjust m, I thought I would get the tracking checked. So, I parked outside and asked them if they could check the tracking and this is how the conversation went: Me: "Hi, could you have a look at the tracking for me please." Monkey: "In that?" while looking over his shoulder at my landy. Me: "yes" Monkey: "We don't do them as they are too difficult" Me: "what's difficult about it, its a small clamp and then adjust it" Monkey: "Well if it is that easy to do, why don't you do it yourself" Me: obviously starting to lose the rag a bit "I did when I stripped the hub, replaced the halfshaft and worked on the diff, at the same time changing the drag link end, but I thought you guys were the experts so I brought it to you to check over." Monkey: starting to lose his attitude "Well they are usually rusted solid and we can't adjust them" Me: "well it's not as I have had it all apart in the last month and it is very easy to undo but don't worry, I will go somewhere where they want to earn my money. Goodbye" This is the Quickfit in Dorking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondo Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 Madcowz, I can relate to that. About a month back I drove my XD90 to our local Quickfit for wheel balancing as I had a new rim and tyre on the front right of the vehicle. The guys did both wheels at the bargain price of £5.80 each, money well worth spending considering there was enough lead (actually zinc in our new enviro nice RoHS world) to sink a small boat fitted to the front wheels Anyway I used the Land Rover in anger this weekend and at 50mph the steering wheel shakes like Jade Goody on a treadmill.. perhaps these guys should have signs stating they are not qualified to work on British made 4x4 vehicles.. Well, another job for Dan to take care of on Monday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Had a similar issue with another "high street" chain with simex tyres. They looked at them and said it would be hard work to change them. I left them sitting on a pile of tyres drinking tea and flicking through magazines..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I guess Kwik fit dont employ the cream of the motor industry, as I had exactly the same response in Kidderminster - "can't do landrovers, they're too difficult to set up, won't touch it mate." I told them I'd just fitted new TRE's and it would be a doddle but they weren't remotelyy interested so I did it myself with a stick and a marker pen in about 20 minutes. Whats difficult about loosening 2 bolts and twisting a rod???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I'd taker it to a small independant landrover garage, or to a tyre place that does larger commercial stuff.... I generally use commercial vehicle places for LR tracking too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smacsor Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I too can highly recommend Protyre in Bristol. They have a computerised 4 wheel alignment rig and are highly professional. They were recommended to me by Steve Hill Landrovers in Brislington and they did a first class job on mine. They charge £20 plus Vat for check and adjust. Telephone number is 0117 9540123. Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smacsor Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Meant to add as well that you get the computer print out which shows manufacturers specifications and before and after readings so you know it's been done properly!! I too can highly recommend Protyre in Bristol.They have a computerised 4 wheel alignment rig and are highly professional. They were recommended to me by Steve Hill Landrovers in Brislington and they did a first class job on mine. They charge £20 plus Vat for check and adjust. Telephone number is 0117 9540123. Cheers, Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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