Happyoldgit Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I believe this thread should not make anyone feel obliged to declare which way they have voted or indeed if they have voted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I believe this thread does not make anyone feel obliged to declare which way they have voted or indeed if they have voted. Where has the poll gone, by the way? What were the results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niall_CSK Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Well I think Trevor's explanations clarify things a bit more. I somehow think the moderators team might disagree with "massive financial support" and as pointed out, legal ownership aside, it's the input from all that makes it what it is, including the hosting & moderating which I think is excellent & well balanced. I would be reluctant to do any more than perhaps add a few words into the forum caveat's for the peace of mind of both parties. As I said there is nothing to stop one user PMing another to ask them to write a few words on the subject for elsewhere. As far as crediting, linking and mutual support, I think that this happens all the time already, I myself link rather than copy & paste which covers these issues and I would expect the mutual support goes without saying, Land Rovers nearest our hearts and other responsible off roaders a close second. Nice to see you around again Trevor, the wife still has murderous intent though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Where has the poll gone, by the way? What were the results? It's still running and pinned to the top of this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Fair point, maybe my comments about journo's weren't very complimentary and maybe they shouldn't all be tarred with the same brush. Some do seem to be decent guys who know their stuff and are real enthusiasts too, others are just journo's.No David I'm not saying which group I think you belong to Just because I said you were ugly! Anyway, I am not a Journo or a hack (unlike Big Kev) I am a 'contributor' and 'technical advisor' oh and a 'noted expert'. I do tend to think the last one is a load of bollox though, unless we are talking horticulture or land reclamation. I have had one or two ideas from forae. I have asked (and been given) loads of photos by members of forae. I have discussed one or two ideas on forae as well - asking for opinions from people I respect. I like the way Trev asked permision. It was polite and a decent thing to do. Despite what one or two think, he didn't have to do that as there is no copyright on public forae, only freedom of information restriction. I voted. I appreciate both side of the argument. I also gave my full support (as a mod on IndiLR) to get sponsorship from LRM. It was a good move. If it was known how many 4x4 journos actually come on here, I think you would be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 More to the point - how much is Trev getting paid to write the articles for the magazine? Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Marshall Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Jon Must be in the £,000s per article. No doubt imminent tax exile..... I have no idea whether he is being paid or not, but I doubt it - even well known hacks get only a pittance from these low volume mags. I wouldn't lose sleep over it either way. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Why not stay completely independent then we can state what we believe. For example if one thinks LRM is rubbish we can say so on here without feeling obliged to censor comments. This forum broke away from LRE to avoid any control from a publication. Just look at all the rubbish printed by the publications in support of their own shows (ie. world's largest, world's biggest, world's best etc etc) all very subjective and often ridiculed by the very statement. It's the sheer arrogance that alarms me, unless they go by the rule "if we say it often enough we will believe it". Also recall just how sensitive they are to criticism of their advertisers service levels or lack of it in many cases. We should be free within the rules of Libel/Slander to state our experiences good and bad from the Land Rover products fraternity without fear of censure from a "linked" magazine whose advertisers bring pressure when criticised. I sense for example on LRO a paranoia when their advertisers come in for flak, with posts being edited out due to potential advertisers winging. These magazines claim to have our interests at heart yet their first priority is selfserving because they are first and foremost a business. All trying to out do the other! My praise goes out to all the club magazines who devote their time free to support Land Rover owners and enthusiasts. They are the real hero's. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROGUE TROOPER Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 no No to what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Anyway, I am not a Journo or a hack (unlike Big Kev) I am a 'contributor' and 'technical advisor' oh and a 'noted expert'. Tchhh and here was me thinking you were an off road Guru! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 no to magazine or any other sponsored involvement: In my mind it is impossible to have a forum in which we can find out the full story about magazines, or cars or equipment or anyones services, when any of the traders involved sponsor it. I could see why the LRE forum went down, because the situation could just not carry on from a commercial point of view: You cant have the biggest advertiser putting 5 pages of advertisement in a magazine and then look at the forum of this magazine where everyone slags them off. So, I think it should stay as it is: independent and giving everyone a chance to explain the full story. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorhead Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Just thought I'd give an outside view, all those saying no..well the bits that have stood out in this topic are the ones that know how the real world works The forum is open, no doors , its so easy to copy an idea or jist of tech info an make it look different enough to put in a mag with no reference to the original source this site provides bundles of superb info/tech for the members by the members and no bugger else. oh really well I wouldn't call myself a fully paid up member didn't stop me looking !!! The way I understood the idea off Bigfoot was something similar to what Mike Jackson used to do on LROi a feature on websites and any interesting articles that where taking place, not actually copying stuff out of the mag for direct copy , although I suppose quotes could be used... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I think this thread is pretty much done to death now, although it's been very interesting. Some replies have been surprising I must say. There's a danger of it degenerating into unpleasantness now, but it has prompted people to vote on the poll, which was good. Setting aside all the 'dodgy' possibilities of just helping yourself to whatever threads you want for LRM, the simplist thing would be for you to contact the poster/s of threads you want and seek their approval to use it. I don't think anyone posts on this site with the thought of profit in mind, but fair is fair, if any magazine is going to use it, then the possibility of some kind of recognition or payment is only fair and reasonable. I post tech stuff for the sole benefit of this site, and the information for anyone that logs in and looks at what I've posted. Payment for me is the comments I get - 'good thread' 'tech archive material' 'you a*** h***! . If a magazine was to ask if a thread of mine could used, then that's good, because you do have to stand out that little bit I suppose. I would expect someone that would make a profit from it, to share that profit though. It must be each individuals choice, and certainly not something the Mods/Admin can dictate. There's also been comments about Bigfoot being involved in all this, and possibly a sour taste? Well I don't know, trust is in the palm of everyones hand, you take that hand and shake it, but if the trust is lost, you can't necessarily shake hands again and get it back. As for comments - Les's forum - as already pointed out by Tony and Western - it isn't, that comment is an insult to the other 3 Admins and all of the forum moderators. 99% of the time we have nothing to do, just because of the membership of this site, and how they run it. Believe me, if had something better to do - I wouldn't be on here so much. Some comments have been in the nature of 'we are the elite', well we ain't. Land Rover ownership, green laning, our right to do idiot things to our trucks, stand up for our rights - makes us all brothers/sisters, so live and let live, putting yourself above others is a bad mistake. Anyway - anyone looked at the catflap threads lately? Not that I'm plugging him for possible magazine involvement you understand. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 .."trust is in the palm of the hand.." Mmmm interesting - possible article in that. Along the lines of "...and Les Henson, respected off roader, Forum Dictator (sic) and builder of Catflap, always trusts the palm of his hand..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Itchy things hairy palms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I wonder if Les's palm has any kids - girls maybe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Just thought I'd give an outside view, all those saying no..well the bits that have stood out in this topic are the ones that know how the real world worksThe forum is open, no doors , its so easy to copy an idea or jist of tech info an make it look different enough to put in a mag with no reference to the original source oh really well I wouldn't call myself a fully paid up member didn't stop me looking !!! The way I understood the idea off Bigfoot was something similar to what Mike Jackson used to do on LROi a feature on websites and any interesting articles that where taking place, not actually copying stuff out of the mag for direct copy , although I suppose quotes could be used... Steve you may not have paid but you are a member of this site. copying is fine but my point is that we are not here to supply copy for magazines. this site as yours is, is independant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorhead Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Steve you may not have paid but you are a member of this site.copying is fine but my point is that we are not here to supply copy for magazines. this site as yours is, is independant. True, just the comment you made about the tech stuff being for the members only and no bugger else stuck out...only way that can be true is if you have closed doors. I understand the independant angle though I was asked a few years back if I was interested in being linked to a Landrover magazine I turned it down because of exactly the same things people have expressed concern over eg content might be dictated by who pays the bills !! In the case of the LRM idea though I think its more a case of providing an overview of whats out there in cyberworld each month so readers of the mag can then visit that site....least thats how I understood it... Can't see any harm in that..and its not a mag dictating what you have on your site, its them highlighting you if they feel you have something of interest... maybe Trev could clarify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 True, just the comment you made about the tech stuff being for the members only and no bugger else stuck out...only way that can be true is if you have closed doors. I think what Tony was trying to say is that the content is generated for the members of the forum or anyone else that wants to view, it hasn't or isn't generated in an attempt to grab attention of a Mag to get published. From reading this post and the various views it looks like everyone is in agreement. If the arrangement Trevor has with LRM works out and is just for snippets and general topics/trends on LR forums then they are free to go ahead and if they want to feature an article in detail because it's caught their eye they can contact the author directly and whether any money changes hands is entirely up to them. If this is the case it doesn't reflect the wording of the vote and the vote is pretty meaningless. Maybe it is worth putting up a new post explaining this and seeing if anyone objects. If a significant number don't then go ahead. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Well put Steve cheers tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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