To Defender or Defender

[rallycinq]

Good day

This might take a bit of reading, sorry.

I recently lost my pickup truck in an accident and am looking for another work vehicle to replace it. I am nearly positive that a 110 Utility back will do what I want providing I plunder the options list.

I need a winch and front mounted towballs, I need a roof rack and wing strengtheners. I also need a rear towbar with clearance from the spare wheel. I'd also like it to be really comfortable to sit in on longer journeys, I do recovery at motorsport events all over the country.

I have looked at the new Puma at the local glass palace and they really don't seem to be terribly interested in actually selling one.

They have one in their showroom, but its on a pile of rocks and is locked. I have had an invite from LR to take a half day off road test. I know how good they are off road, I want to drive one on the road. The dealer will only let me have a test drive after I order one??

So he wants to take £30K+ before i know if I can live with it.

I then looked at having a 300TDi rebuilt to my specification, and as long term ownership possibility looks like the best option at the moment.

However I hope by joining here you can advise where I am going wrong.

Cheers

David

[Happyoldgit]

Hello David - welcome to LR4x4. My advice is to find another dealer! As long as they think you are seriously looking and worth their salt should be willing to let you have a loan vehicle for a couple of days.

[FridgeFreezer]

A well rebuilt vehicle will be better value as a long-term thing than a new-from-factory one. For starters, you lose a pile of money as soon as you drive off the forecourt. With a rebuilt one, you can start with most of the serious depreciation done, upgrade a load of stuff (galv chassis / bulkhead and waxoyled to catch the usual rust-spots before they start for example) so the thing will last a long time without major woes, and in a few years time it'll be worth more than the flock as it'll still be tidy and need less work.

[Eduardo]

David

I think that you should see another more professional dealer.

Here, at the end of the world we first test one several times before buy it!

Have a new one or rebuilt one have their pros an cons.

One pro over the used one is the depreciation as Fridgefreezer said

The con of the used one will be "hidden" problems that you can found in a used vehicle in spacial if you don't know the car's story

On the other hand, PUMA is more "driveable" in the road than 300TDI. You can go up to 120 km/hr without any problem and with not so much noise (you can talk inside). Also the A/C has been upgraded and the seats are more confortable. But take in account that is a new model and some problems could arise (until now, oil sump, and other design problems).

When I bougth my 110SW, I tried the 300TDI and a PUMA and finally we decide for PUMA (more confortable and more easy to drive in the road)

Regards

[JST]

Hi David, as the others have said find another dealer, 2ndly take them up on the LRE offer, which will not actually be a half day off road unless you upgrade to that it will be 90mins on 90mins off road.

Not letting you have a test drive is madness and the first time i have heard of it

go on name and shame the dealer.

[alantd]

I agree with JST. The LRE test drive will include an on-road drive.

I'm surprised the dealer won't give you a test drive - they're normally quite keen to get you out in one. The only thing they're likely to do is take you out in a different Puma (quite often a 90, I've found).

Still worth doing, though.

IMHO (and this debate will rage) the Puma is quite a different prospect to the 300tdi. It is much more pleasant on-road and you'll be under warranty for the first 3 years so you'll know the complete history and all the idiosyncrasies of the vehicle by the time the warranty expires. With a tdi you'll be into maintenance mode straight away. Of course you offset that with the extremely high initial price, the electricery and the need to think carefully about any planned butchery (fiddling too much will compromise that warranty).

I'm very happy with my Puma - more than my previous Td5 - because it is my everyday vehicle as well but I still secretly hanker after a late 300tdi as a play thing!

[rallycinq]

Thanks for all the input.

I like the 300 TDi idea due to its lack of electronics, and I understand that power upgrades are available. The ability to run on bio may prove useful in the future.

This will not be an everyday vehicle. I drive a Fiat 500, the new one, with the diesel engine as its usually me travelling on my own.

I had a 4 year old Isuzu Denver, with winch and all the kit which I intended to keep for a long time, but a Ferrari twisted its chassis as it disappeared underneath it.

The truck will be part work vehicle, where I go to caravan sites to site and repair caravans, hence the need to carry stuff, but then I will hitch up a touring van and go 500 miles to Goodwood for the long weekend, or a remote forest somewhere.

I am going to another LR dealer today to see if they have a Defender I can at least sit in.

Cheers

David

[western]

all your rally recovery kit will easily fit in/on a 110 SW, I've run mine for the 12 years of being invloved in rally reocvery.

[Andrew Chua]

You can't test drive a defender in singapore from the ONLY dealership too. I'm totally puzzled still till today.

you can test the range rover or discovery though.

[rallycinq]

all your rally recovery kit will easily fit in/on a 110 SW, I;ve run mine for the 12 years of being invloved in rally reocvery.

Yup, I've worked that out, its just whether I can live with long distances on road that is my main concern. My Isuzu was on AT2s and had leather, air con and digital radio, so was very comfortable for three or four of us to travel.

Cheers

david

[GL88]

I then looked at having a 300TDi rebuilt to my specification, and as long term ownership possibility looks like the best option at the moment.

IMHO going the rebuilt to specification route is fine if your Land Rover is your hobby but could prove to be false economy in your case as you have a particular use in mind. The value of expensively rebuilt older trucks is entirely dependant on finding a buyer prepared to choose it over a much newer vehicle - Auto Trader currently has two 1985 90s one rebuilt to XS spec and one a rebuilt V8 both buyers looking for over £10K (and unlikely to get it in my view). I suspect the financial hit on buying a new one could be smaller - especially given the very low depreciation of newer ones. Moreover you will find that a new truck is a much more pleasant environment for driving long distances than a 300TDi - better seats, improved performance, ventilation and quieter.

[A Twig]

The dealership near Bath are offering a new LR for 50% deposit, no payments for 2 years then you either return it or pay for the rest of it. If you can get it specced as wanted through the dealer this might be worth a look. If you decide you can't live with it after 2 years then it hasn't crippled you quite so much...

[MJIbex]

That offer I reckon you will find is only for Discovery, Range Rover & Range Rover Sport.

Mark.

[Mo Murphy]

Buy the Puma, it'll be far better than a rebuilt 300.

HTH

Mo

[GBMUD]

its just whether I can live with long distances on road that is my main concern.

I did a 1350 mile journey in my 2004 Td5 110SW a month or so ago without any real discomfort. I am not a small guy either.

In your position I would buy the Puma.

Chris

[Mo Murphy]

I am not a small guy either.

Chris

That's not what Jenny said, Chris

Mo

[Guest diesel_jim]

What was Mo doing aound Chris's house, while Chris was away....With Jenny?

[rallycinq]

Seems a concensus then.

I visited another dealer this afternoon. Unfortunately a city centre one, but they did at least have a (0 panel van that I could sit in. The door is awfy close to my elbow. I've now worked out why Defender owners drive with the window down.

I have organised a weekend test of their parts van, also a 90 van, but at least its a Puma Defender.

Thanks again for all the help.

Cheers

David

[Guest noggy]

if you want comfort, dont buy a landrover, they will do anything you want them too. but they certainly aint comfy.

[landmannnn]

Really important when buying a Defender is the residual values. Have a look on autrotrader at 3 year old defenders compared with 3 year old pickup. The pickup will lose around 55% where a defender is closer to 30%. Over this period the cost of ownership is lower than the majority of vehicles.

Don't buy from a Sytner lr franchise (they are called Guy Salmon and a few others) all they are interested in is a £60k Range Rover and will give you rubbish service. My experience anyway.

[Steve Hiatt]

You don't say where you're from but MJ Fews at Charfield, South of Gloucester are great to deal with. I've had five vehicles from them now, they are down to earth and never shirk warranty work.

BTW, I've had a 300, TD5 and Puma Defenders and Puma XS gets my vote by a good margin

[rallycinq]

OOps, didn't complete my profile, which I have now done, and I am in the West of Scotland, so South of Gloucester is probably a wee bit far for me.

I appreciate that the LR will never be 'comfy', but as long as its comfy enuff it will do all I want it to do.

I can't think of another vehicle that will manouevre 5 tonnes of caravan on softish surfaces while being able to deliver a 1.8 tonne touring van the following day, then take a new door for a caravan out to site along with all the tools needed to fit it.

My pick up did most of that, but carrying a new door was a bit of a problem.

Cheers

David

[ozzie1989]

Sounds like you do need a Land Rover...

I would probably say go for a pre registered one (as they tend to sell cheaper) or ex-demo - finding the right one might be hard but you never know! Nearly new might be the way to go - though theres just something about picking up a brand new beast

[rallycinq]

Sounds like you do need a Land Rover...

I would probably say go for a pre registered one (as they tend to sell cheaper) or ex-demo - finding the right one might be hard but you never know! Nearly new might be the way to go - though theres just something about picking up a brand new beast

Yeah, a new vehicle has something about it, not just the price tag. I would be happy with a used one, but I don't see anybody else being mad enough to order an XS with utility pack, and all the dealers I have spoken to only put a 90 van on as a Defender demo, then use it as the workshop run around.

Cheers

David

[ozzie1989]

I've seen quite a few XS Utilitys around on the internet - there's a county at James French at the moment!

Link Here

Plus there are the tax and business incentives - so if I were to order one it would be with the util pack (no chance of that though )