Kam Shafts taken from Portal rover thread

[uninformed]

im guessing the cvs you fitted were AEU2522, landrover did make bigger cv's for the 101forward control, but these would not fit inside your swivel balls.

well i am jealous of your fabulous engine B)

so the only maxidrives you fitted were to the rear? and im guessing that when it snapped it was under full load? you were winching up hill?

i know even Mal Story would laugh if he heard someone say his shafts were good for 5000hp especially running 35's.

to put things in posective, when Mal started making shafts out of hytuf the biggest tyres running on rovers would have been 33 inch and that would have been very rare. and that doesnt take into account the increase in HP and the decrease in gearing that has come since then. the fact that for the most of it, his shafts have stood up to severe abuse says something to me.

i wasnt to keen on Ashcrofts original shafts, but there new ones seem to be a good product, although id like to see them made from 4340 300m, maybe they could do a batch of 300 marging for competitors. sure they would cost more, but at that end of the scale it would be worth it.

i still think a cv for rovers can be made better, but i dont have the money to do it. if you do come into trouble with your ashcroft cv's you should be able to make a longfield fj80 fit. im sure you are more than capable of that small machine work.

I HAVE NEVER HAD ANY DEALINGS WITH KAM, but after speaking to people that really do know what they are talking about, i am not impressed with what they do. and quite frankly if you want a cv with a fusable shaft, just fit early range rover cv's R60665, these have the seperate 10 spline stub shaft. alot of the guys competeing in rovers over here run these, the stub is the first to break and it is very quick to replace.

it sounds like you have taken the rover axle pretty far, and it says they are capable of something. they will never be as strong as a toy,nissan ford or dana built to the same spec. but LR dont come with those.

i have a LRdef110, with sals rear. for my needs i wont need to go to another brand of diff. i do not compete.

Serg

[Off Road Toad]

Hi there, Firstly our KAM halfshafts are not made in a tin pot shed down the road from someone in Berkshire.

Secondly Lara they are not made from fossilised marshmellows either. The KAM product range is improving rapidly and we are investing heavily in our design and development department. Our new CV joints are made from aerospace M300 material. Yes the fusible link is designed to break at a pre-set level of torque in an effort to protect the rest of the drivetrain. If you do not follow the fitting instructions carefully and you set them up incorrectly you will break them, this is true of anything.

The KAM halfshafts are made of the same 4340 alloy steel as Ashcrofts but THEY ARE NOT THE SAME AND ARE NOT MADE BY THE SAME MANUFACTURER and we can supply Aerospace shafts if required.

Land rover axles can only be strenghtened so far and if people insist on ever more torque/power or inappropriate driving technique then you really need something other than a rover axle.

KAM products do come with full warranty and we will always endeavor to sort any problems out as quickly and efficiently as we can. we are a rapidly expanding company and we want to help so please, instead of posting rumor or incorrect information, give us a call or better still come and see us at the LRO show at peterborough on the 13th and 14th sept.

THANKS, Steve Francis. Sales Manager KAM Differentials ltd

[white90]

Welcome Steve

Interested in your quote re inappropriate driving, as surely that's the reason for wanting upgraded parts?

If you read Julian AKA Laras post above it is quite comprehensive on what he has done to improve his Drive-train.

[FridgeFreezer]

Interested in your quote re inappropriate driving, as surely that's the reason for wanting upgraded parts?

The man has a point Tony, how many people have posted stories of "impressive" breakages where they've basically driven like an utter arse and induced a failure. You know the stuff - one wheel with traction, lockers in, full steering lock and nail it and then wonder why a CV grenades itself.

[white90]

Nope I still miss it John

I've bust CV's simply on 33s granted the method you describe would be a bit risky

but Ashcroft Warranties the CV's for 5years there is no disclaimer included saying you mustn't do as you describe.

Why do we have to accept breakages?

Lara has proved that Shafts/CV's are available to handle even the BHP/Torque his engine produces.

I'm not asking for an unbreakable CV for £50, as I and lots of others are willing to pay for decent gear.

starting off with limitations is a peer place to start IMHO

[FridgeFreezer]

Why do we have to accept breakages?

I'm not saying you should, if something is guaranteed. What I'm saying is there's a certain element of driving like a muppet that Steve was referring to - if a product is guaranteed not to break that shouldn't mean you then go out and try to destroy it just for the sake of it, which some people seem to take more interest in than actually completing an event.

[white90]

Fair point then.

[Rizla 1]

Hi there, Firstly our KAM halfshafts are not made in a tin pot shed down the road from someone in Berkshire.

instead of posting rumor or incorrect information,

THANKS, Steve Francis. Sales Manager KAM Differentials ltd

So what your saying is that Allgears ( tin pot shed ) have never made your shafts -

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

A mate who had their (KAM) lockers in a muddler ...asked them for some spares"we don't make that anymore" was the answer

wasn't really that old, we had to machine up the new linkage bushes and bits by ourselves, after sales service and quality is as important

....may even more so ...than what you sell

All my drivetrain is Ashcrofts (Shafts Pegged diffs CW&P Drive Flanges) or Quaffie (Front drive flanges shafts) & kam cv's - when I was buying

Half shafts I looked at KAM (and MaxiDrive too) but I then bought the above

Steve,

KAMs image isn't as 100% good as you think it is, perception is reality and all that, so if that is the view of many there is a reason for it, similarly why X-Eng, Ashcrofts, and others have theirs which is exellent and takes effort commitment and real quality to gain.

Bad news does travel very fast, good news travels much much slower and needs more effort - KAM needs some more effort IMHO ?

I can't remember when I last (if ever) heard bad service reports re Ashcrofts or Simon R at X-Eng - it doesn't happen, things break, things wear out, people do stupid things, but their service backup is fabulous - I would recomend (and regularly do at events) either Ashcroft or X-Eng without question........as for KAM, you make some really really nice products, but the word in the off road scene does little to endear the average user to you, more like 6/10 must try harder - and many I guess vote with their wallet

Nige

[Off Road Toad]

Thank you for all your feedback, We are listening to what people are saying and we are making a real effort on the customer services side of the business which may or may not have been lacking in the past. KAM are looking very much to the future and you may notice that we are now attending the major shows and we will be competing with our own vehicle in the near future in such events as the outback challenge morrocco as well as events closer to home. The point of this is for us to get much closer to our customers and get this all important feedback and actually do far more real world testing and development work.

I do not wish to get involved in a long drawn out argument over the forum but our products are made in state of the art facilities in Europe and the States as well as in house here at Godalming. We have used Allgears for some prototype work and they do a fantastic job. In fact they have supplied formula 1 team Mclaren with precision parts. On account of the volume which we supply to various Military users around the world as well as Santana in Spain who now fit our Difflocker and shafts to 95% of Iveco Massif vehicles (formerly known as the PS10) which leave their production line AND we are now OEM to Land Rover Australia, we do not produce our shafts in a tin pot shed.

We undertake full certification and traceability on material specification and heat treatment which are insisted upon for OEM production in our large volume markets.

Please if you have any issues then do give us a call or come and see us at the LRO show.

Many Thanks, Steve Francis

Sales Manager, KAM Differentials LTD

[Michele]

if a product is guaranteed not to break that shouldn't mean you then go out and try to destroy it just for the sake of it

Otherwise called "good sense"?

[Escape]

Otherwise called "good sense"?

No place for that on a LR forum!

[uninformed]

I do not wish to get involved in a long drawn out argument over the forum but our products are made in state of the art facilities in Europe and the States as well as in house here at Godalming. We have used Allgears for some prototype work and they do a fantastic job. In fact they have supplied formula 1 team Mclaren with precision parts. On account of the volume which we supply to various Military users around the world as well as Santana in Spain who now fit our Difflocker and shafts to 95% of Iveco Massif vehicles (formerly known as the PS10) which leave their production line AND we are now OEM to Land Rover Australia, we do not produce our shafts in a tin pot shed.

We undertake full certification and traceability on material specification and heat treatment which are insisted upon for OEM production in our large volume markets.

Please if you have any issues then do give us a call or come and see us at the LRO show.

Many Thanks, Steve Francis

Sales Manager, KAM Differentials LTD

what do you supply to land rover australia?

cheers, Serg

[tacr2man]

It all comes down to what you are trying to do and how you go about it, I have Maxidrive locking diffs front and rear and their shafts etc, been in CSW V8i for 15 years never had a problem, vehicle used in Oz for travel and including recovery, eg towing 54 tonnes, semi L/Loader tow start D8 , nissan patrol 300kms etc

When I did o/r trials etc V8 88" had a buddy/co driver who was deaf , blew more diffs , axles than I can remember , he paid for the ones that broke while he was driving , but I got pretty bored rebuilding , say no more. JMHO

[uninformed]

Hi there, Our new CV joints are made from aerospace M300 material. Yes the fusible link is designed to break at a pre-set level of torque in an effort to protect the rest of the drivetrain. If you do not follow the fitting instructions carefully and you set them up incorrectly you will break them, this is true of anything.

The KAM halfshafts are made of the same 4340 alloy steel as Ashcrofts but THEY ARE NOT THE SAME AND ARE NOT MADE BY THE SAME MANUFACTURER and we can supply Aerospace shafts if required.

THANKS, Steve Francis. Sales Manager KAM Differentials ltd

what is aerospace M300?

is it 4340 300M, 300 marging or something else???

cheers, Serg

[Off Road Toad]

Serge,

Firstly, We supply Driveline components to Land Rover Australia, however that is as much as we are contractually allowed to discuss.

Secondly, the material that we use for CVs is 300M (M = Maraging). There are also other names for this material such as Hy-Tuf and S155, but these are all effectively the same material, but from different companies of steel manufacture.

I would also like to point out that although the material plays a part in the strength of the our product, it is only a small part as design, conditioning of the material before manufacture, cutting the splines, heat treatment of the material after manufacture and other aspects all aid to end result to our products.

Thanks,

Steve.

[Escape]

the material that we use for CVs is 300M (M = Maraging). There are also other names for this material such as Hy-Tuf and S155, but these are all effectively the same material, but from different companies of steel manufacture.

I think Lara will disagree strongly that Maraging is just another name for Hy-Tuff...

[roguevogue]

Serge,

Firstly, We supply Driveline components to Land Rover Australia, however that is as much as we are contractually allowed to discuss.

Secondly, the material that we use for CVs is 300M (M = Maraging). There are also other names for this material such as Hy-Tuf and S155, but these are all effectively the same material, but from different companies of steel manufacture.

I would also like to point out that although the material plays a part in the strength of the our product, it is only a small part as design, conditioning of the material before manufacture, cutting the splines, heat treatment of the material after manufacture and other aspects all aid to end result to our products.

Thanks,

Steve.

Steve, there have, over the years, been a few companies and individuals who have registered here to rebuke suggestions of poor quality or service or indeed just to set the record straight. I can't think of one who would do it again. This is not because they are wrong, far from it, it is just a case of the old adage "One can protest too hard". Sadly there will be the few who won't let you say anything without disagreeing and questioning your facts.

In short, my advise would be to leave the whole thread alone and it will sink from view soon enough and no one will think twice about it.

Before your last (4th) post the thread had been silent for 2 days.

[white90]

http://www.steelforge.com/metaltidbits/maraging.htm

http://www.suppliersonline.com/propertypages/300M.asp#Spec

http://www.metalsuppliersonline.com/Resear...ty/metals/6.asp

Well these are the spec sheets and it would appear the facts differ some what

between 300M and maraging

[Bush65]

what is aerospace M300?

is it 4340 300M, 300 marging or something else???

cheers, Serg

To comply with the FAA, aerospace parts are usually made from material with an Aerospace Materials Specification (published by Society of Automotive Engineers, Inc.). These specifications have a number preceded by AMS.

There are a lot of these for many commonly used materials. Obviously a plain carbon steel with an AMS number is not as strong as an alloy steel such as 4340 (which has an AMS number).

300M is a modified 4340 and has an AMS number.

300M is not the same as Hytuff, but is similar (some alloying elements have a slightly higher percentage in 300M (I can't remember exact details and it is too late for me to bother looking it up).

The reference handbook that I use is DOT/FAA/AR-MMPDS-01 (Metallic Materials Properties Development and Standardization) published by U.S. Department of Transportation and Federal Aviation Administration. This replaced the MIL HDBK 5, handbook that was maintained by the US air Force.

[FridgeFreezer]

In short, my advise would be to leave the whole thread alone and it will sink from view soon enough and no one will think twice about it.

Even shorter:

[Steve 90]

[Off Road Toad]

We are not trying to say that we are better than other companies out there, or anyone out there. We at KAM diffs simply design and manufacture components in a market.

The materials, design and manufacturing process that we choose is thought out, not just hashed up and put out on the market. We wouldn't put somthing on the market that we think wouldn't work, and yes there are other materials that would make the product stronger and more durable. However as a buisness we need to weigh up the cost of such things before we put our product on the market.

We are also not in this forum to argue with others. There are people out there who have had problems with KAM in the past and we are sorry to hear of this. However the company is turning around. KAM have now more people on its team to help solve issues that customers have. We are also always working on ideas for the future.

We appriciate the thoughts of our customers, and are willing to hear what they are happy with and not so happy with. That is why we are on these forums.

We dont wish to engage with this thread any further, but we are allways happy to answer and help customers out when they phone us.

01483 419779

kind regards

KAM Differential Team

[Lara]

Serge,

Firstly, We supply Driveline components to Land Rover Australia, however that is as much as we are contractually allowed to discuss.

Secondly, the material that we use for CVs is 300M (M = Maraging). There are also other names for this material such as Hy-Tuf and S155, but these are all effectively the same

Steve.

Steve,

It was exactly this totally misinformed comment that made me finally loose confidence in your company.

The M in 300M Does not in any way = Maraging

300M is a vacuum re melted 4340 Carbon Steel Alloy

"300M is a low alloy, vacuum melted, steel of very high strength. Essentially it is a modified AISI 4340 steel with silicon, vanadium and slightly greater carbon and molybdenum content than 4340. 300M has a very good combination of strength (280 to 305 ksi), toughness, fatigue strength and good ductility. It is a through hardening alloy"

Maraging 300 is a NON CARBON steel alloy. (carbon makes steel potentially brittle, hence the development of this special alloy)

"Maraging 300 alloy is a very high strength iron base, nickel , molybdenum, cobalt alloy. It may be age hardened to a strength level of 300 ksi ultimate with a hardness on the order of Rockwell C 53" (A poor memory suggests S162 also applies, may be a digit out though ;o)

I don't think your company is a bad company, and if you read my post, I always found your company very helpful, unfortunately though I did not find the products at the time matched your information, maybe the same missinformation is being handed to you by your suppliers, hense the problems in performance?

Regards,

Lara

[BogMonster]

It's all just metal innit?