Les Henson Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 If there is oil on the outside of the wheel rim only, then it's either the drive member gasket or a poorly fitting/damaged hub cap. In this case it's the gasket, and this is how to replace it on the rear - the front requiring the drive member to be seperated from the shaft/c.v joint, but otherwise the same gasket and method. Vehicle is a 200TDi 90. Raise the vehicle clear of the ground - this is to prevent transmission backlash and to help aligning the drive member with the hub when you re-fit it. Leaking axle oil is spun out over the rim and tyre - making a right mess. Careful what you use to clean it up - I use WD40. Substances such as petrol, brake and clutch cleaner, acetone, cellulose thinners, will damage the tyre. Undo and remove the 5 x 17mm drive member bolts. Lever the drive member out of the hub assembly - there will be some oil loss as you do this. Bits of the old gasket will be on the hub and back of the drive member. Use a gasket scraper/stanley blade/paint scraper to remove all traces of it. Apply a thin layer of grease to the hub face and stick the new gasket to it. Slide the driveshaft back in (you will have to manipulate it in order for it to fit back in the differential). You may also have to turn the wheel in order to line-up the bolt holes. Check the spring washers on the drive member bolts and replace them if they have flattened. Also consider using threadlock on the bolt threads. Tighten the bolts evenly and lower the vehicle back to the ground. Check and top-up the axle oil. You can do this job without raising the wheel off the ground, but if there's any transmission wind-up in the drivetrain, then there's a risk of injury when the last drive member bolt is removed as the wind-up is released. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 You forgot to mention struggling for hours to extract the broken bolts - they seem to break either of their own accord or on undoing! We have a theory that the blue threadlocker LR use is too strong. We often replace all five bolts as you can see the waisting on the old ones. If you really don't want them to break then 10.9 capscrews are a good idea. (we often find broken bolts that have been glued in so that no-one would notice. The stealers™ tend to do this.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Interesting Les but there's never been spring washers under those bolts on my Defender I do threadlock them each time they are taken off though. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 EPC shows no washers from (V)LA930456 on the front and rear axle - rover and Salisbury Washers to (V)KA930455 on the front and rear axle - rover and Salisbury I suppose if you have washers, then no threadlock, and vise-versa Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Interesting Les. Also interesting that I've not had a problem with the bolts coming loose. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 They tend not to come loose until they have stretched a bit, having been in and out a couple of time and perhaps overtightened, then the only answer is replacement of the bolts. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLineMike Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 is there a specified torque for the bolts or is it the standard measure of tight's tight, too tights f***** ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluespanner Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I have the members off so often on my series, iv given up with gaskets and use a good bead of silicone. I'v never had problems with stretching bolts... Is this just a coiler thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 65 nm Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 is there a specified torque for the bolts or is it the standard measure of tight's tight, too tights f***** ? This is for the bolts securing the Drive Flange. You didn't say which vehicle you were asking about, as both Series and 90's have been mentioned ... The Series 3 manual says 30 to 38 lbf/ft (40 - 51 Nm) for the Front, no figure is specified for the Rear. The 90/110 manual says 44 to 52 lbf/ft (60 - 70 Nm) Front and Rear. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I had to have a read to see what all the fuss is about I'd point out that using brake cleaner will not damage the tyre as it has to be safe for rubber seals/hoses, I'd sooner use that than WD40 all over my tyre/brakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I've found that often the mating faces are fairly badly damaged (I suspect from repeated gasket scraper use) and using two gaskets on each flange is the only way to get it to seal. Although this seems like too simple a job to warrant a thread - it's amazing the number you see leaking - so maybe not! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicks90 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 i gave up using paper gaskets on mine about 3 years ago. Even with a nice smear of grease on each side and torqued up correctly, they always end up leaking after a few months. both mating faces cleaned properly and no visual defects - but they still leak. instant gasket works wonders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Funny Nick I have found the exact opposite. Then there's the time to add on scraping the glue off. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techtone Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I've found that often the mating faces are fairly badly damaged (I suspect from repeated gasket scraper use) and using two gaskets on each flange is the only way to get it to seal.Although this seems like too simple a job to warrant a thread - it's amazing the number you see leaking - so maybe not! Si You will probably find that most of those that are leaking have blocked axle breathers which is causing the axle to pressurise and hence push oil out via the weak spot....the poor mating flange. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WALFY Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 After going back and looking at the pics you've posted if you look in pic 4, 5 and 6 I can't see where the integrity of the seal has given up. It's obviously stuck to both the veh and the drive member and there seems to be a clear ring of broken gasket and no loose gasket where it might of gone behind. Unless in every pic it is hidden by the 1/2 shaft or at the base of the hub on the veh. So I don't see how the gasket was at fault. My money would be on the rubber cap. They perish for a past time and spew oil out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 The owner of the vehicle is a friend/local to me. The hub cap had no oil in, so it wasn't the problem. That side of the rim can then only be the gasket. I've seen it since, and it's as dry as a bone still (and I did put oil back in the diff . The gasket was a good stick - I agree, and the bolts were all nice and tight. I wouldn't expect this type of join to spontaneously start to leak unless there was some other problem to cause it, such as one or more of the bolts coming loose. I agree with the comments about using more than one gasket (they are thin paper rubbish, whereas a thicker one would be a lot better). I've had to use RTV sealant in the past - due to damage to the mating faces. As you can see in the pictures, the mating faces are fine, so just the gasket on it's own was enough. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I wouldn't expect this type of join to spontaneously start to leak unless there was some other problem Blocked breather - causing pressurisation when the axle gets hot ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 Good point Moglite, but wouldn't the wheel bearing rear seal leak first under the pressure? I really don't know to be honest. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 any fluid/gas under pressure will try to find & exploit the easiest escape route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Who would have thought so much tech would have been generated from such a simple gasket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicks90 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 one last point i'd make is sealant is better at stopping leaks if you remove the axle seal to allow your wheel bearings to run in diff oil. The standard paper gasket doesnt seem to like keeping runny oil in! i regularly had to change wheel bearings when using standard grease / pack the bearings method - then someone on here said about removing the shaft seal to allow diff oil to swill into the hubs and lube the bearings. I gave it a try on all 4 wheels and in the past 2 years have only had to change one bearing. If you regularly dunk your motor in slop (even with axle breathers) you will end up with water and mud in the axle oil and in the hubs. How it gets in there, God only knows, but it does! Having just a small amount of grease around the bearings doesnt seem to cut the mustard and they wear out too quick and its a nitemare to clean and repack them. If they are lubed with ep90 from the diff, you take the hub off and just give them a quick swill out in fresh ep90 and refit. refill the diff with clean oil and away you go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderman Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Exactly what he says ^^^^^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I often wonder how many peoiple have worked full time on these axles ? It was Land Rover that fitted the seals to the Salisbury. The ones I worked on didn't have a seal in the axle tube.. I have not had any problems with the flange drive leaking at the gasket on a Salisbury axle. I don those for many years, Long before the glues you atre talking about came on the market. Three Salisbury axles hubs off was a normal shift. Now if I get my Defender in a lot of muddy water, the first job is hubs off and bearings regreased. The correct lubricant for Salisbury hubs and Land Rover hubs is Lithium 9sp) grease. Yes I let my EP90 migrate along the haslf shaft into the hubs. As I said earlier. When I bought my Defender the flanges were glued in with an RTV of some sort. Now to add over half an hour each hub to each service to clean the stuff off is not my idea of fun. A correctly fitted gasket greased correctly, pulls off in one piece and all that is dis a wipe of the mating surfaces. It can't be that wrong in the little mileage I have done with mine. Bought at 124,000 now on 196,000.......... mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Paddocks sell two types of gasket, a thicker gasket paper type one and a thin brown paper one which is half the price of the thicker one. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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