plasticbadger Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I'm about to modify my newly aquired 1993 3.9 efi Classic for play days and some challenge use. I'm new to V8s so I want to make sure I do all I can to protect the engine and electrics (without going to Megasquirt before somebody suggests it!). So, can I move the ECU - there appears to be one under both seats? What else needs re-locating? It's a Vogue SE so there's plenty of extra electrics I'm going to go through the injection loom with di-electric compound or similar and was thinking of 'potting' key connections with liquid electrical tape, or am I risking sealing IN water? I've heard of breather feeds to the distributor, has anybody tried this, if so, what do you plumb to where to keep the air flowing? My brother-in-law has a water-proof distibutor kit from a military 101, (with the double sheathed HT leads and bolt on cap) will this set up fit the 3.9? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I started on my slippery slope in a 3.9 vogue SE. never had a problem, just a little lift and a a set of MT's didn't go swimming mind you but got enjoy it before turning into a submarine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Mega... oh fair enough. In that case, an ice-cream tub over the dizzy and coil, genuine ignition parts and you're away - it won't go deep enough to trouble the ECU anyway but yes you can move it, it's just a bit of a cumbersome loom to shuffle about. Up behind the dash is about the easiest place. Don't get too carried away with dielectric compound - you can end up electrically insulating connections that are supposed to be connected. The all you've got to do is find where LR have hidden all the other electrical gizmos and gadgets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Pretty sure teh water proof 101 dizzys don't actually work very well, I've read of someone trying it and going back to the stock one, and just sealing it up really well. They would be points ignition as well, so that's one more thing to go horribly wrong -I wouldn't do it TBH. Yes you can move the ECU under the dash -the loom comes from here and there's enough length to get it right on top of the dash, or to keep some order to the cabin, high up under the dash. The ABS ECU is rather more difficult -Bish looked at moving it but gave up as the ABS sensor wires needed extending.... which could easily be a pain. You *will* get deep enough to flood the ECUs BTW -I have.... Megasquirt/Jolt would make for diesel-like water proofness ofc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 90 JON Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 hi i have a militiary type waterproof dizzy and coil for sale on the forum it worked quite well afterr £125 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 It's worth pointing out that the mil dizzies are radio suppressed, not waterproofed. The fact they're slightly better than standard is more a by-product than by design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teslo Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I've relocated ECU under dash( but i have LHD). All other things i did so far was to seal dizzy and fitted snorkel. It is working so far. Next things to do will be breather for dizzy and engine. Be sure all parts are in perfect condition and beware of cheap replacement parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custom-conversions Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I've heard of breather feeds to the distributor, has anybody tried this, if so, what do you plumb to where to keep the air flowing? The distributor has 2 holes underneath that let moisture in. Connect a couple of breather tubes up so that you get air flow though the distributor. Good leads, some silicone & spray grease should sort the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 So, can I move the ECU I guess you probably have aircon - but for the benefit of others who don't there is a handy space right above the passenger parcel shelf (remove the grab-handle for extra access) which nicely contains the ECU and it's associated relays, and which the wiring reaches quite easily.. I've heard of breather feeds to the distributor, has anybody tried this, if so, what do you plumb to where to keep the air flowing? I have read of people trying this and not being too impressed - although in principle I think it sounds a good idea to me. Roger p.s. Why no Meagjolt? I think that someone on this forum is (or soon will be) selling bolt-on MJ kits which would (IMHO) be a lot less work and more certain to work than waterproofing the existing setup.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbadger Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Thanks guys, to answer the question you've made from my questions and a few more: I'll move the ECU and post up how where I manage to stuff it around the air con. (I presume the ECU is the one under the left seat). I think I will go Megajolt / Megasquirt in the furture, so I'm looking more for what I can do to make do for now, as it were. How much roughly do the systems cost and what are the advantages of each? How do they work with LPG, as I'm planning to convert? I'm fitting the truck with my Landcruiser axles currently fitted to my Disco, so can I ditch the ABS, wiring, ECU etc? Or will that send all the other electronics into a fit. Or is it case of give it a try? Interesting about the 101 dizzy, I never thought of that but looking at the setup it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunc Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Had my Rangey in water just over the bonnet and the only proection it has was a snorkel and WD40 everywhere else. If i was doing it regularly then carrots and a bit of silicone here and there would happen, but it's all redundant if you MegaSquirt it. Most of them seem to run two maps with LPG and switch from one to the other depending on petrol/LPG. You're luck that Fridge has already posted to your thread; he's one of the resident MegaSquirt gods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'll move the ECU and post up how where I manage to stuff it around the air con. (I presume the ECU is the one under the left seat). It's the one under the drivers seat on a RHD vehicle, along with the fuel pump relays etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 You'll hit problems if you ditch the ABS, the MOT man (and your insurance) needs it working. Not too tricky though esp. if the TLC axles had ABS in the first place. RangeyRover is, I believe, the guy for MegaJolt & EDIS and I have a stock of MS & EDIS, price does depend rather on what you want (a bag of components or a full custom loom with everything ready to plug-n-play) but I reckon the average MS'n'EDIS install comes in around £500 if you source some bits from the scrappy and do some wiring yourself. MegaJolt only does ignition, MegaSquirt does fuel &/or ignition. Both, with EDIS, remove all the titting about with distributors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbadger Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 You'll hit problems if you ditch the ABS, the MOT man (and your insurance) needs it working. Not too tricky though esp. if the TLC axles had ABS in the first place.RangeyRover is, I believe, the guy for MegaJolt & EDIS and I have a stock of MS & EDIS, price does depend rather on what you want (a bag of components or a full custom loom with everything ready to plug-n-play) but I reckon the average MS'n'EDIS install comes in around £500 if you source some bits from the scrappy and do some wiring yourself. MegaJolt only does ignition, MegaSquirt does fuel &/or ignition. Both, with EDIS, remove all the titting about with distributors. Thanks Fridge, the problem is the ABS sensors on my TLC axles are F****d and I don't have the plugs from the TLC loom to fit them, then that presumes that they work on the same basis as the LR ones - as per our previous discussions on the subject. Therefore, as ABS was an option at the time, I thought that striping it out would be the easiest route. The insurance is all fully declared mods, so the removal of the ABS should just be one on the list, maybe... £500 is a bit above my current budget, I'd be happy with the hardware/wiring side, but the electronics/software side is well out of my understanding, so a while saving up and reading up is in order. I've only got approval from Mrs PB for the project on the basis that I'm not spending any money above what I can sell off the spare parts for, so another £500 would land me in BIG trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 During my bobtail experiences I spoke to VOSA about removing the ABS and putting standard brakes on. In a nutshell he said "why would you want to?" I eventually explained why (no ecu etc etc) and he said in principle it would be OK as the vehicle type has approval for non ABS. Not sure if it needed SVA or anything else though. Can't remember sorry. You will definately have fun come MOT time as the tester will be looking for the ABS lamp to do its thing, which of course it wont so you'd need to have some impressive paperwork to disuade him. My RR failed for having no cats fitted despite it not having them from new!! Just what came up on the MOT mans screen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 They would be points ignition as well 3.9 would be electronic control, not points. but as already has been said, dizzy and coil are the main weak points. one thing i didn't see whilst scan reading (apologies if it is in here) is to remove the viscous and fit switchable electric fans, the windmill in the engine bay creates a lot of splashback when it gets a bit deep, soaking everything in the bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Not to mention windmilling itself into the radiator if something goes wrong The ABS thing you'd need to discuss not only with the insurance co but the MOT man, if he expects an ABS light then you may need to retain it, I'm not sure what'd happen if you retained a light for MOT purposes without the actual ABS to go with it. ABS sensors aren't complex, most of them are the same style of pickup as crank sensors and I'd wager there are a few cheap alternatives out there - Ford VR sensors are cheap and plentiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 3.9 would be electronic control, not points. Not if he stuck a 101 dizzy in there, which is what was being discussed, unless parts are interchangeable....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfredenewman Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Not to mention windmilling itself into the radiator if something goes wrong The ABS thing you'd need to discuss not only with the insurance co but the MOT man, if he expects an ABS light then you may need to retain it, I'm not sure what'd happen if you retained a light for MOT purposes without the actual ABS to go with it. ABS sensors aren't complex, most of them are the same style of pickup as crank sensors and I'd wager there are a few cheap alternatives out there - Ford VR sensors are cheap and plentiful. im not condoning it buts a common dodge in the motor trade for a car with abs probs to wire the abs light upn with oil presure light solving the dash prob but nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young bobtail Rhys Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Best thing I EVER did with "waterproofing" my 3.5efi was put the coil in a water tight lunch box. Problem solved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reggie Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I've heard of breather feeds to the distributor, has anybody tried this, if so, what do you plumb to where to keep the air flowing? If you want to waterproof the dizzy then you have to fit the breather pipes to the holes on the bottom of the dizzy as already said, you can connect one up to the plenum chamber & the other to the snorkel or air box. This should give you a good airflow & keep moisture out. I fitted the breathers to the dizzy but never got round to connecting them up & eventually moisture got into the dizzy & caused a misfire, that was after a day deep fording over the bonnet. I have since finished the job & connected them where I said. It is essential that you fit the breathers if you intend on deep water wading, all the WD40 in the world won't help you if water gets in the dizzy. I know this first hand as I thought mine would be fine when I first got it with the cap siliconed & plenty of WD40. One night deep water wading.........put........put.......oh ****! That was me & custom conversions waist deep in some very cold water stuck, both V8s saying no! Mine filled up with water up to the seats & submerged both my ECUs & petrol system hasn't worked since. So you may want to move the ECU's but saying that since my mods I haven't had a problem with water, I can go pretty much as deep as I dare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardos Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I've used a 9 finger rubber glove (3 for the coil), lots of place sell them e.g. http://parkerlandrover.com/proddetail.php?...384abd23d362461 The only problem is that they don't like being removed after a year or so as they melt themselves to the dizzy cap due to engine heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Both, with EDIS, remove all the titting about with distributors. Sorry, a bit off-topic, but does anyone know of an off-the-shelf replacement oil pump drive without the distributor top for use in MS/MJ conversions? My (now redundant) distributor still works ok so I am reluctant to scrap it by getting the top turned off, but it does get in the way a lot when adjusting belts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Not really, find a carp dizzy for no money from someone and cut its head off seems the easiest. You can flog the good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 DO NOT try fitting a 101 Waterproof dizzy mit points, it will run like a dog due to very differing advance curves, and no you can't fit the efi gubbins into it without massive lathe work, I tried years ago, however ............. what JONV8 is selling is very different, that is a RF supression kit fitted to some Military 3.9 V8 110s for one, the kit is really for supression but it has a very very very good waterproof side effect - I would say the next best to MS or MJ See I nearly got the whole sentence out without mentioning Mega .... DOH Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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