Line Speed questions

[honitonhobbit]

How fast are the following with full load (not no load)

Standard 8274-50

8274 plus Come Up 5.6 motor

8274 plus XP 6.0 motor

X9 standard

XD9000

MileMarker in first gear

Ta in appreciation

[Tonk]

its gotta depend on wot load is on them, gotta be an equal load test so the figures mean anything, or am i missing the point?

[honitonhobbit]

max load - ie 8274, 8000lbs - X9 9000lbs

[V8CAMEL]

How fast are the following with full load (not no load)

Standard 8274-50

8274 plus Come Up 5.6 motor

8274 plus XP 6.0 motor

X9 standard

XD9000

MileMarker in first gear

Ta in appreciation

mile marker and speed in the same sentance

[honitonhobbit]

Yeah yeah very funny.

I was interested to see if anyone had any info.

Easy to say "my 8274 reels in at 74.2feet/minutes" but what does it do with 8klbs on the end. An M8000 will do 8ft per minute with 8Klbs on the end so just how much quicker is it's big sister 'cos Warn reckon that 8ft is fast...

[white90]

the prob as I see it is that the 8000lb is only the first layer

diminishing greatly as the layers build.

the 8274 I have with the 90 fully bogged, all the rope out will reel in at the same speed as the 90 does in Low first(crawler enaged) on tickover which is slow

well as slow as you can reasonably walk anyway,

along side a MM this would appear like an SR71 Blackbird on full afterburner.

no load 122ft per min with an Xp motor fitted.

didn't Alfred Murray do this sort of test in his winch a mile test a few years ago?

[GBMUD]

the prob as I see it is that the 8000lb is only the first layer

diminishing greatly as the layers build.

the 8274 I have with the 90 fully bogged, all the rope out will reel in at the same speed as the 90 does in Low first(crawler enaged) on tickover which is slow

well as slow as you can reasonably walk anyway,

along side a MM this would appear like an SR71 Blackbird on full afterburner.

no load 122ft per min with an Xp motor fitted.

didn't Alfred Murray do this sort of test in his winch a mile test a few years ago?

Milemarkers do not seem to slow down with load, they just stop at a given limit. I would say that at, say 8000lb load, a MM will go faster than most leccy winches... as astonishing as that may seem! PTO machanicals are fastest across the board though.

I'll get my coat.

Chris

[darthdicky]

http://www.warn.com/truck/winches/src/M8274-50.shtml

12v 8274 with 8000lbs on it is 6.1ft/min on the first layer of the drum.

http://www.warn.com/truck/winches/premium_series.shtml

Has details for the other Warn winches.

Richard

[bishbosh]

XD9000:

9000lbs - 6.38ft/min from HERE

8000llbs - 6.88ft/min

M8274 - 50

8000lbs - 6.10ft/min from HERE

[honitonhobbit]

Richard/Charles

Thank you, that is just what I am after. Bless you both unto the fourth generation

Mmmm - M8000 a lot faster than an 8274 at max load and an XD90000 a faster with an extra 1000lbs on board

Need an X9 et al details now.

IIRC the new Champion C10000N two speed is 98ft/min at no load second and 9ft perminute with 4.5tonnes on board and with change out of 400quid!

[BogMonster]

I haven't measured the MM and I have no idea what "full load" is as I've never found anything yet that will stall it or even sound like it is coming close, but it certainly appears to be the same line speed regardless of load and regardless of engine speed with the ZF74 pump.

[bathtub]

How fast are the following with full load (not no load)

Standard 8274-50

8274 plus Come Up 5.6 motor

8274 plus XP 6.0 motor

X9 standard

XD9000

MileMarker in first gear

Ta in appreciation

WHAT ABOUT 8274 with 2 x 5.6 bow motors ??????

[GBMUD]

WHAT ABOUT 8274 with 2 x 5.6 bow motors ??????

You tell us Pete.

Chris

[widget]

XD9000:

9000lbs - 6.38ft/min from HERE

8000llbs - 6.88ft/min

M8274 - 50

8000lbs - 6.10ft/min from HERE

Milemarker H12 (with ZF PAS pump)

12000lb - 6ft/min

10300lb - 6.56ft/min from HERE

8500lb - 7.22ft/min

5900lb - 11.81ft/min

2000lb - 30ft/min (in 2nd gear this is max load and stalls just above it)

no load - 60ft/min (in 2nd gear)

Superwinch X9:

9000lb - 1.97ft/min

6100lb - 4.27ft/min

4000lb - 7.55ft/min

2000lb - 12.47ft/min

Who's the Daddy now??

[SteveG]

Sorry for hijacking the thread but I've been thinking about this lately in the context of the cost/benefits of an 8274 vs something like a superwinch EP9.

A superwinch EP9 comes with albright solenoids, 4.6hp motor for approx 450

An 8274 costs about 825-960, then if you add Albright solenoid and 6HP XP motor or 4.6 bowmotor add another 270

So for almost 3x the cost you are getting better line speed and capacity to carry more rope. What else are the benefits?

I assume the situation on the EP9 could be improved if you increased length of drum and fitted a 6HP XP motor and still only be just over half of 8274 cost.

A question about 24v motors. How does a 4.6HP 24V motor pull faster than a 4.6HP 12v. I understand the benefits of lower current draw but how come it's faster??

Don't get me wrong I like the 8274, just wondering if it's over-hyped too much??

Cheers

Steve

[was a nice truck?]

I dont know any figs but I run an 8274 with a bowmotor because it came along at the right price and have never been tempted to even think about change to another winch.

Dave

[roguevogue]

A superwinch EP9 comes with albright solenoids, 4.6hp motor for approx 450

Are you sure that it is an actual Albright not a copy made in the same oriental country as the winch?

I heard tell that they are a copy albeit of a good quality, not necessarily a problem but worth knowing.

[SteveG]

Are you sure that it is an actual Albright not a copy made in the same oriental country as the winch?

I heard tell that they are a copy albeit of a good quality, not necessarily a problem but worth knowing.

No idea really, just remember launch at SEMA where Superwinch were stating that they were Albrights.

Steve

[honitonhobbit]

They are albrights

the Albright copies in Warn winches are the chinese made jobbies - very slight differences with mountings as well

What interests me is this loaded speed. Forget double motors and upgraded motors, lets talk real world off the bus stuff here.

A mile marker H12 2speed is quicker under 8000lb load than an 8274, as is the M8000 and the XD9000. I know the T-max 110000 is slower under big load than an X9 and I know that an EP9 is quicker than XD9000 twoing a 6tonne tractor up a 20 degree gradient.

The M8000 is tiny and weighs bugger all, it uses less juice than any of the others except the EP9, which is only slightly slower (IIAC) but has an external (out of drum) brake. Both can be worked hard if allowed regular breaks.

So what does common sense say to buy? Forget the 'let's pretend I am a regular in the challenge scene' chaps and the 'I am a regular in the challenge scene' chaps, oh and the very clever hybrid winch chaps.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Hmmmmmmm

Interesting stuff.

My "Thang" on the front sums up the drawbacks of even the PTO Driven Hydraulics, whilst being quiockish, and the pulling force of the winch has little effect of the speed, once you have finished then you may have say 50 feet or more of cable needing respooling....and this will be at the same speed as almost max pull, whereas the electrics will be far quicker with no load,

Yes I can go 4 or even 5th, and 1500RPM but it even as a PTO will be slow, this is if you like the diametric situation to under heavy loads.....

In this sit mine pulls at almost the same speed as respooling, and the load on the winch has little difference, under heavy loads electrics do slow down massively and up go the current draw.

Good well sorted electric winches vs well sorted hydraulics then really comes down to choice and compromise and use, neither IMHO is "Better" then the other, more "Different" with differing "Compromises"

However sheer pulling power for long drawn out periods a mech or PROPERLY sorted Hydraulic is hard to beat, but prob for a fraction of the money you could have an equally sorted exotic electric.....

What I think is equally as importnat as the winch is the quality of the mounting, the approach / depature, and the general standard of the fitting equipement and skill of operator, sadly this last lot often get overlooked

Nige

[white90]

the warn contactor is a genuine albright solenoid.

A pic

[white90]

8274-50 with 4.6hp motor

73ft /per min no load

to 6.10 ft/min with 8000lb load

well to extrapolate to the 6hp XP motor

122ft/min no load so an increase of 68% approx

that should equate to over 10ft/per min with 8000lb load

[honitonhobbit]

What I think is equally as importnat as the winch is the quality of the mounting, the approach / depature, and the general standard of the fitting equipement and skill of operator, sadly this last lot often get overlooked

Nige

Nige, this should be spell checked and written on a big stone plinth for future generations.

Tony - without starting an argument, if you take a genuine albright and a Warn solenoid block apart you will see the differences. This doesn't however make them any less capable, they are simply a copy of a good product which is itself a copy of a good product. Often when the Chinese copy good products they add a bit of improvement along the way.

I think you will find that your basic calculations for full load line speed are a bit too simplified. I don't know the calcs but I think Newton/Meters comes into the equation and IIRC N/m is not a constant force measure but an escallating (?) force.

I also think that individual improvements need to be set to one side - impressive as most are. Steve picked up on what I am writing about straight away and Nige has put the most pertinant point in.

Imagine if you would a Tree Surgeon who does a bit of fencing on the side. He hauls timber, pulls stumps, lowers a fair few branches, does a bit of self recovery. He wants to use Plasma. He has a budget of 1k. What does he buy?

He has a budget of 600 quid what does he buy?

he has a budget of 2K what does he buy?

[V8CAMEL]

Nige, this should be spell checked and written on a big stone plinth for future generations.

Tony - without starting an argument, if you take a genuine albright and a Warn solenoid block apart you will see the differences. This doesn't however make them any less capable, they are simply a copy of a good product which is itself a copy of a good product. Often when the Chinese copy good products they add a bit of improvement along the way.

I think you will find that your basic calculations for full load line speed are a bit too simplified. I don't know the calcs but I think Newton/Meters comes into the equation and IIRC N/m is not a constant force measure but an escallating (?) force.

I also think that individual improvements need to be set to one side - impressive as most are. Steve picked up on what I am writing about straight away and Nige has put the most pertinant point in.

Imagine if you would a Tree Surgeon who does a bit of fencing on the side. He hauls timber, pulls stumps, lowers a fair few branches, does a bit of self recovery. He wants to use Plasma. He has a budget of 1k. What does he buy?

He has a budget of 600 quid what does he buy?

he has a budget of 2K what does he buy?

mmm lowers a few branches. I'm sure that all the winches state must not be used for lifting or lowering.

tut tut tut mt hobbit

for what its worth.

8274 - good fast and ok for comps

tmax 11000 lasted 30 mins before it was discarded as to slow on the paying out( slower than walking speed of Martin - yes that slow) . Yes i know i could get out of the truck and put it into free spool but then martin kept falling over.

Pulled and pulled and pulled but too bloody slow to even bother with.

[honitonhobbit]

I would have said "Good, fast, reasonably reliable and ok for comps.