miketomcat Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Western when I used Def 200tdi front hubs and discs I needed 6mm spacers I then tried some other hubs I had with different discs (ftc1381) the spacers were no longer required at all but the hubs were to narrow for the stub axle ie nut bottomed out long before hitting the bearing. So finally I settled on upto 200tdi front hubs fitted with ftc1381 discs this set up worked purfectly no spacer just needed the thrust washer and nuts from the disc hub. As far as I can tell the hubs disc mounting face is in the same place regardless of hub but the disc back spacing varies quite a bit. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 cheers Mike, I'm not worried about the thicker spacer, just trying to understand why I needed it, the rear disc/calipers are working very well, so there's no need for me to change anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I have a similar system to yours - I use 110 front hubs and discs with Discovery rear callipers and a similar spacer for the calliper. I did play about with 300Tdi axle parts, and with 300 hubs (slimmer), discs and callipers, everything lines up as intended by the factory. The 300 110 rear discs have a much shallower back space which reflects the shallow hub, but using those discs with the early front hubs puts the rotor too far outboard and the calliper bracket would need shaving beyond what I would be willing to do. The reason I used the earlier parts was cost - I was able to fine a cheap 110 rear axle in good condition, and didn't want to pay more for 300Tdi shafts, stubs, hubs and drive flanges. I also preferred the stronger, older parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I was given the front [now rear] hubs, bought the calipers/disc/spacers/brackets new. wanted to retain the thicker drive members & the wider spaced hub bearings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I was given the front [now rear] hubs, bought the calipers/disc/spacers/brackets new. wanted to retain the thicker drive members & the wider spaced hub bearings. Was thinking about this last night, i recon the only part which could be different is your gifted hubs, could they be anything different to frc6139, like an earlier spec which would have a greater off set causing them to push the caliper/bracket 5-6mm further back? Everything else is known part numbers. Just a thought to help solve the mystery. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 That's what I was getting at - the stubs merely reflect the hub width and the flanges are immaterial to the brakes. The back spacing of the hub from the disc mating face to the inboard rim must be shallower on the thin hubs by those few mm that the calliper would have needed shaving if we were to use the standard rear 300 disc on these earlier hubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 AFAIK the gifted hubs are from a pre-Defender axle, they look the same as my original 1989 front hubs, the 200tdi defenders IIRC used the same hubs with wide spaced bearings according to my parts book, only the 300tdi on have the bearing closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 That's exactly my understanding too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Thought i'd share the outer washer/shims I made. Wasn't happy the outer wheel bearing partially was unsupported and not centered. The thickness dimensions overall was 10mm (3mm widest part then 3.5mm radius and 3.5mm inside bearing.) The outside diameter dimensions were 64mm on 3mm thick washer portion with radius starting at 52.5mm radiusing down to 45.2 on tube portion. The inside bore is 42.3mm throughout to sit on 200tdi stub axle. I made 2 from 74mm dia 303 stainless. Not taking orders as these took over 6 hours, waiting for material/tooling to recover. If anyone is interested I can do a cad drawing and double check the sizes for the diameters. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilk Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Thought i'd share the outer washer/shims I made. Wasn't happy the outer wheel bearing partially was unsupported and not centered. The thickness dimensions overall was 10mm (3mm widest part then 3.5mm radius and 3.5mm inside bearing.) The outside diameter dimensions were 64mm on 3mm thick washer portion with radius starting at 52.5mm radiusing down to 45.2 on tube portion. The inside bore is 42.3mm throughout to sit on 200tdi stub axle. I made 2 from 74mm dia 303 stainless. Not taking orders as these took over 6 hours, waiting for material/tooling to recover. If anyone is interested I can do a cad drawing and double check the sizes for the diameters. Pete Pete Maybe a little bit late, but would like if you can double check the diameter sizes. Think important one is for the stub as easy to buy a bearing and how long the sleve section is. Regards Wilk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 will measure for you when i get 5 mins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 I have just rebuilt a front axle with new Delphi discs and have just found out the the disc spacing is wrong! The inner pads are hard up against the disc face, now I need to strip and check the bell distance as it should be 70mm. If you have used non gen discs this could be why you had a different spacer size to others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilk Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I have just rebuilt a front axle with new Delphi discs and have just found out the the disc spacing is wrong! The inner pads are hard up against the disc face, now I need to strip and check the bell distance as it should be 70mm. If you have used non gen discs this could be why you had a different spacer size to others? I have just rebuilt a front axle with new Delphi discs and have just found out the the disc spacing is wrong! The inner pads are hard up against the disc face, now I need to strip and check the bell distance as it should be 70mm. If you have used non gen discs this could be why you had a different spacer size to others? I have just rebuilt a front axle with new Delphi discs and have just found out the the disc spacing is wrong! The inner pads are hard up against the disc face, now I need to strip and check the bell distance as it should be 70mm. If you have used non gen discs this could be why you had a different spacer size to others? Think the 90 front disc offset/ hat spacing or height is 61.5mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilk Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 will measure for you when i get 5 mins Don't whorry about the bearing size as I got that from the internet. The dept is 10mm as you mentioned earlier. THe only measurement to double check for me would be the stud where your shim/spacer/sleeve fits. I am 10000km form my Landy so can not measure it myself. Thanks in advance, also no rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 The overall depth/thickness is 10mm, 3mm on the washer portion, then 3.5mm radius into bearing and 3.5mm as the sleeved tube portion, you can lose some of this last bit though say 0.5-1mm less, depends on your needs. The inside tube dimension is 42.3mm which should be a sliding fit on the non 300tdi stub to the shoulder, the 45.2mm is the ID of a wheel bearing sliding/push fit. This should also be the same Dia as the stub tube plain portion. You can see there is not much in the way of wall thickness, its a compromise between a loose fit and thin wall and sliding fit with adequate wall. The OD of the 3mm washer portion is 64mm although not critical I used the same dia from the old washer. Made mine from 303 stainless, as I wanted something tough enough which wouldn't rust yet machineable. I built mine up on the bench to gauge the measurements, using an old stub axle, bearing, my finished hub, another bearing. then used a depth gauge to find the 7mm to bearing surface. then measured thickness of 2 nuts and lockwasher to allow 3mm washer and yet still have 1-2 full threads showing on stub axle. It's worth mentioning if you use only a thick washer which are used on front stub axles you will need to do some filing as it fouls on the stub as the nut is almost tight, from memory. Phew. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilk Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 The overall depth/thickness is 10mm, 3mm on the washer portion, then 3.5mm radius into bearing and 3.5mm as the sleeved tube portion, you can lose some of this last bit though say 0.5-1mm less, depends on your needs. The inside tube dimension is 42.3mm which should be a sliding fit on the non 300tdi stub to the shoulder, the 45.2mm is the ID of a wheel bearing sliding/push fit. This should also be the same Dia as the stub tube plain portion. You can see there is not much in the way of wall thickness, its a compromise between a loose fit and thin wall and sliding fit with adequate wall. The OD of the 3mm washer portion is 64mm although not critical I used the same dia from the old washer. Made mine from 303 stainless, as I wanted something tough enough which wouldn't rust yet machineable. I built mine up on the bench to gauge the measurements, using an old stub axle, bearing, my finished hub, another bearing. then used a depth gauge to find the 7mm to bearing surface. then measured thickness of 2 nuts and lockwasher to allow 3mm washer and yet still have 1-2 full threads showing on stub axle. It's worth mentioning if you use only a thick washer which are used on front stub axles you will need to do some filing as it fouls on the stub as the nut is almost tight, from memory. Phew. Pete Thanks, will ask an Engineering Company to make me two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete3000 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Got the pictures out tonight and the caliper to confirm what I wrote down originally picture showing nuts fitted outside dia 45.2mm inside dia made mine slightly bigger depth reading 30.78mm, HTH, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilk Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Got the pictures out tonight and the caliper to confirm what I wrote down originally nuts.jpg picture showing nuts fitted ODdim.jpg outside dia 45.2mm IDdim.jpg inside dia made mine slightly bigger depth.jpg depth reading 30.78mm, HTH, Pete Pete, I appreciate your effort. Bought a bearing and took the measurements to my local engineering shop. They will use 304 stainless. I found this bush from SKF on the internet, that got the same dimensions (ID and OD). Suppose one can cut it shorter. Don't know if that will work, no flange. It is stated that they can tolerate high loading and temperatures. Maybe it is a option as I think it might just fill that gap perfectly. I decided to use your design (flange bush), but maybe someone can check this out. Don't know the price, but 1 piece will be enough for both sides. http://www.skf.com/group/products/bearings-units-housings/spherical-plain-bearings-bushings-rod-ends/composite-dry-sliding-bearings-fw-bushings/composite-dry-sliding-bushings-inch/index.html?prodid=1851110262 Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilk Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Anyone have or can measure the distance of the total width of the Caliper Brackets FTC3306? With other words how far will the calipers mount from the axle flange. Think around 25mm? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim1 Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I found the new disks and hubs not suitable for my original stubs axle (could not adjust the play in bearings) so fitted new stubs found spacer not required still in process but all seems fine, only problem I have is HD drive flange holes don't line up so having to get them drilled out a bit. P.S I do have the spacers 6mm thick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easytiger Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I found the new disks and hubs not suitable for my original stubs axle (could not adjust the play in bearings) so fitted new stubs found spacer not required still in process but all seems fine, only problem I have is HD drive flange holes don't line up so having to get them drilled out a bit. P.S I do have the spacers 6mm thick Do you still have spacers Jim? are they looking for a new home, if so what do you want for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easytiger Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I am steadily gathering bits to do this conversion on my 200 tdi, do i need to change master cylinder or any other parts other than the axle components to ensure correct brake balance etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 No change to master cylinder or servo or any valves in the system. assuming your vehicle is a 90 you could just bolt on a rear axle from a Discovery 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I'm pretty sure I've still got the spacers western got for me as I didn't use them in the end. I'll have a look tonight. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easytiger Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 No change to master cylinder or servo or any valves in the system. assuming your vehicle is a 90 you could just bolt on a rear axle from a Discovery 1. Its a 110 station wagon which I am kitting out for some overlanding so its getting heavy, I did think about bolting on a 300tdi disk braked Salisbury but they are a bit thin on the ground, then I looked at a refurbed exchange but they are over £1k and wouldnt even take my drum braked axle as the exchange, so here I am! How is your system working now Western? I'm pretty sure I've still got the spacers western got for me as I didn't use them in the end. I'll have a look tonight. Mike Thanks MIke, I live in the middle of nowhere and its always a chore finding someone to make things like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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