stuck Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 When I bought my 110 I was actualy looking for a 300Tdi as I'd been told TD5's weren't suitable for diy overhaul: Lesson is if you can strip any engine, you can strip a TD5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantd5 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Scary.... Just the one I owe now.. 99 MY... Overhaul kan be a killer I guess....... Will soon crack the Crankshaft Damper and shaking all over.....410NM I heard.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 TD5 is difficult, but the R/R straight 6 is even worse in my opinion. No bright links on the chain makes it even more fun Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromit Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Just looking at the pictures. Did you pull the camshaft first or does it all waggle out around the timing chain in one piece ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I love the way LR owners are terrified of anything new and "complicated" - someone posted a link a while back about overhauling a modern BMW straight 6, makes the TD5 look like a lawnmower engine by comparison! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 Gromit, No need to remove the cam, just unbolt the sprocket and move forward. Fridge, That was the point of the post, no more difficult than any other engine, just thought I'd make the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slihp Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 being a newbie with a TD5 but in it for the long hall I was wondering what way to take this post, thanks for clarifying stuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromit Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I think fridge has a point, which is the reason the TD5 is viewed with such skepticism my many LR owners, because it has among other things (in this day and age, shock horror) an ECU. As such, posts like this are great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 That reminds me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M&S Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Yup, I've said it many times, it's mostly just nuts and bolts like any other vehicle. All of my electrical problems have been down to a flat battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I have completely overhauled one TD5 with resleeving (yes, I know you are not supposed to do it), polished crank etc etc. It's a bit of a strange engine. Brian (the owner of our workshop) and I had a private joke that lots of the engine was designed by the tea lady who would change a few things on the drawing boards when nobody was looking. Examples: head bolts that go through the cam carrier so that if you take off the cam carrier you have to remove the head and change the gasket and fit new head bolts. This is extra expense when fixing a seized camshaft. And a world's FIRST (AFAIK) the big and main bearings are not indexed - in other words there is nothing to stop them moving backwards or forwards or even rotating. I could go on.... Oh yes, and if the fan belt breaks it can force its way back into the sump (I kid you not) past the oil seal. The fan belt is then chewed up by the oil pump or cam chain and blocks the strainer which causes the camshaft to seize. (And necessitates the repair above). Mind you, Silvio tells me that there have been cases in Italy of Freeloader TD4s having the same happen. And as for all-time bodges you only have to look at the chain-driven oil pump (I ask you). We privately think the project engineers forgot to assign the task to an engineer, so the tea lady got the job. The original design had a rubber belt until they discovered that it didn't like oil so they replaced it with a bit of bicycle chain and signed off the design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromit Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 And as for all-time bodges you only have to look at the chain-driven oil pump (I ask you). Out of complete ignorange I ask, how are the oil pumps on real engines driven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 300tdi oil pump is direct drive by the crankshaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantd5 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Yup, I've said it many times, it's mostly just nuts and bolts like any other vehicle. All of my electrical problems have been down to a flat battery. Must admit I am no mechanic but started hanging on dad in the garage and now I manage all my suspensions by just reading and buying parts and repairing too.. IT all comes to bolts and nuts and torque.. Nothing special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 At the end of the day, ECU-driven engines do physically have more to go wrong in that there are more parts involved. However, they are also more powerful, quieter, more refined and better for the environment though lower emissions and being generally more efficient. Take a look at modern common-rail diesel car engines. The Ford DW-10 used in my mum's Peugeot is a 2 litre 4 cylinder engine and puts out 124hp and 240lb-ft. It achieves 40mpg+ even with all the economy-sapping Euro IV emissions nonsense attached. More power and more torque than my 200Tdi (though obviously at different levels of the rev range) from a smaller displacement engine giving better MPG and far better emissions levels. It's also practically silent (at least from inside the car ) and idles smoothly at any temperature. Electronics can be reliable, it just depends on the quality of the components used like anything else. How many people give a second thought before stepping onto a modern airliner with more electronics than you can shake a stick at. It comes down to the manufacturer and cost, if the components are specified correctly and built properly there's no reason that they won't give their expected life's service. If they are built on a slashed budget to the minimum of costs then you can't expect a great deal. Personally, I'd love a Td5 engine in my 110 if I could afford it. I love my 200Tdi for it's solidarity and ruggedness, but the world of engine development has come a long way in the last 20 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I'll take an ECU with a billion transistors in it over a carburettor or mechanical injection pump any day - 99% of problems are down to a loose connection or dodgy sensor, and usually made 10x worse/more expensive/convoluted by the blizzard of blind panic & random attempts at fixing it that this induces the average LR owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 My favourite feature of the TD5 has to be the injector loom & it's sealing arrangement. Who the hell thought of putting the injector connectors inside the rocker cover?! Lube oil in the ECU is a better than MegaSquirt you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmeanie Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 " How many people give a second thought before stepping onto a modern airliner with more electronics than you can shake a stick at. It comes down to the manufacturer and cost, if the components are specified correctly and built properly there's no reason that they won't give their expected life's service. If they are built on a slashed budget to the minimum of costs then you can't expect a great deal." Ummm, you think that aerospace manufacturers are not ruthless in slashing budgets and building to minimum cost? The customer usually just places penalties on poor reliability that forces a lot of very expensive testing and even then they occasionally have spectacularly poor service. That is why they have so much redundancy built in. I happen to know of aircraft that use pieces of common garden irrigation system in their cabin pressure systems for cost reasons yet have some of the best reliability numbers of their class. "Who the hell thought of putting the injector connectors inside the rocker cover?!" Electric connectors and sensors placed inside oil filled cavities are common on aircraft and a lot of ground vehicles. Its how you seal the point where the electric harness pierces the casing that counts. Its not rocket science or that expensive but the right connectors must be used. The concept is fine but the execution is flawed in some areas of a TD5. It is, however, hardly the most complex beast out there and for all its oddities it seems to do well enough. Its hardly fatally flawed. I don't understand the fear of these engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Out of complete ignorange I ask, how are the oil pumps on real engines driven? the 4 cylinder 2.5 engines including the 200tdi are driven by the camshaft via a shaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I know some Honda's, Mercedes and Audi's use chain driven oil pumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 Gent's, I was only trying to show that a TD5 is no more difficult to work on than any other engine. Didn't mean to start a debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 It's got the camshaft at the top, it'll never catch on you know ! Mo (luddite) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromit Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 the 4 cylinder 2.5 engines including the 200tdi are driven by the camshaft via a shaft. By real, I meant non-land rover engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 By real, I meant non-land rover engines. Lol There are other engines out there? When and more importantly why did that happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_d Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Sorry for the partial highjack. Looks like the HG has gone on our Defender. It's at a comp safari in Scotland at the moment (Support/tow vehicle) and I'm expecting my business partner is arranging recovery to the south coast at the end of todays racing. In preparation for its repair and the next event in Scotland next weekend I'm trying to research the HG replacement. Can anyone help with a link to an english language TD5 workshop manual and secondly any pointers for the upcoming job. Many thanks Steve (layed up at home with a septic tooth) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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