Look after those UJ's...

[kiwi_110]

I had a visit from a mate last night, turned up with heavy looking plastic bin full of metal blobs. Upon inspection, it's his whole 110 front diff head, pinion out, crown wheel off, bearings in bits, ground up cages, broken C/W bolts.

He'd been driving his very early (1984, sliding front windows) 110 around and ignoring the ever increasing rumble of a dried-out front propshaft UJ. Eventually, the lack of articulation offered by the semi-siezed UJ transmorgrified into a destroyed outer pinion bearing which, in turn, resulted in heaps of load on the crown-wheel. Over time, the crown wheel started to shake it's bolts loose, eventually sheared some of their heads off and ensured total failure of the front diff.

He's lucky. Once we got the remains of the bearing races off the pinion, it looked OK. There are no teeth chipped or missing and crown wheel looks ok too. We'll have to dress the inside of the diff head where the bolts gouged themselves a nice clearance groove, but it all looks rebuildable. His off to LE Bearings with the part numbers off all the Timken races, and needs to track down some 5/8 CW bolts and washers, seals etc.

Moral of story - Grease those UJ's...

Ray.

[ozzie1989]

You would be amazed at the number of people who look at me stupidly when I talk about greasing the UJ's reguarly!

It's a servicable item (as is anything with a grease nipple, involving oil etc. etc.) and should be checked reguarly.

I must confess I only grease mine every few months, if you off-road this should be more often!

[Mo Murphy]

It's just as entertaining if the UJ lets go and you have a propshaft flailing about under your Landy

[kiwi_110]

It's just as entertaining if the UJ lets go and you have a propshaft flailing about under your Landy

Do you guys get the US TV prog "Myth Busters" over there? They spent hours repeatedly blowing a rear propshaft off at the transmission end of an old Crown Vic or something (irrelevant) as it sped along under remote control. They had to time the drop so the prop dug into a pre-made pot-hole in an attempt to make the car pole-vault it's own prop-shaft (the myth). Eventually, they timed the sequence right and the prop dug into the pot-hole, sheared at the rear U/J and was shoved into the boot, er, trunk. The rear end jumped a few inches as this happened. Not spectacular, but interesting.

[PieEater3142]

Lost my prop on the motorway. One of the scariest experiences of my life. Lesson learned, do mine regularly but still seem to eat through them. I have a 2" lift and standard propshafts. Getting wide angled propshafts on the new landy to try and mitigate this.

Has anyone else had a problem eating through UJ's despite regular greasing? Oh and my 2" lift is super soft...

[bigbeast]

what kind of grease is best used on the UJ's..moly grease or some sort of marine grade. ie waterproof grease?

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Had one let go from transfer box end on front of a disco with 30mm lift. Made a few dents in the transmission tunnel. Luckily was slowing for a roundabout so not too great a speed. Always well greased. Replaced with gkn joints and now, 3 years later both joints on front had some play in them. Rear prop still OK.

[Mo Murphy]

IIRC chelseatractor had a prop let go that left a magnificent hole in his bell housing !

Mo

[reb78]

I have a 2" lift and standard propshafts. Getting wide angled propshafts on the new landy to try and mitigate this.

I'm pretty sure that the normal props Gwyn supplies are wide angle and they are not much more expensive than a standard GKN replacement. might be worth a call. I've got one on the front of my standard 110.

[GBMUD]

IIRC chelseatractor had a prop let go that left a magnificent hole in his bell housing !

Mo

Ah yes, the former Mrs Tractor's D2 V8. I think it took out the gearbox case as it needed a whole new gearbox when the transfer box end UJ expired. In an oddly similar incident, the current Mrs Tractor had a similar occurrence in their present D2 Td5 when the front diff input shaft broke and left the propshaft flailing. A new diff and a rebuilt shaft have sorted this incident rather more cheaply.

Do you guys get the US TV prog "Myth Busters" over there?

Yes.

Chris

[CwazyWabbit]

I reckon it's pretty much down to luck as to what happens when you have large lumps of metal flailing around at speed

Having seen the Mythbusters episode in question (albeit a few years ago) I seem to remember the car being a pretty bog standard saloon car, I imagine the effects on a 4x4 are slightly different due to the increased ground clearance allowing greater angles of 'flailing' ..... may also be an effect from the increased weight of the vehicle keeping momentum, although as it was an American car and not a euro box this might not be such a big factor.

[Tom1809]

Standard props and a 2 " lift I ate through uj's in months, went back to standard height, but will go wide angle or even double carden props on the 90 when it gets lifted again.

[Mo Murphy]

or Murphy will getcha

... I'll be watching all of you

Mo

[ToyRoverlander]

Standard props and a 2 " lift I ate through uj's in months, went back to standard height, but will go wide angle or even double carden props on the 90 when it gets lifted again.

Funny. I've got custom hig-angle driveshafts and the rear one runs on a fairly steep angle due to my 109" being sprung over and the low pinion Toy axle. The front one leads an easier life as there's a high-pinion front diff. Rear shaft has done about 15,000km now and is still tight and smooth. Front one has done about 25,000km and is still perfect.

I do grease the ujoints at least every 5,000km and before I go offroad every time.

[Disco-Ron]

The way i see it, a wide angle prop won't last any longer than a standard one if left un greased, if you have good articulation, then your standard prop may bind, this can cause early failure, and won't help, but fitting a wide angle prop won't stop the uj's failing, greasing them will!

[jai_landrover]

Also there is a Huge difference between a std Rover item and some replacement items.

I had a pair of cheap ones from Paddocks and the yokes have nowhere near the same angle deflection before they bind up compared to the 1966 original propshaft although the UJ's were identical. The yokes were thicker material and not cleaned up after casting. I would take an original item and replace the UJ's over a new £30-£40 propshaft.

I'm almost certain that these replacement props are one of the reasons why people slate 2 inch lifts. 2 inch lift combined with ocasional bit of offroad wheel dangling action where the propshaft is on the verge of binding is most probable cause of why some 2 inch lifts wear UJ's out and others do not. Quite often you can see the hammered marks where the yokes bind up offroad while dangling wheels.

I have seen several cheap propshafts spat out at comps because full axle droop was not factord in and the propshaft binds up breaks and gets spat out.

[kiwi_110]

We rebuilt this diff tonight. With new bearings on the pinion (unmarked and therefore to be at nominal depth) we used the original shim under the inner bearing race and 4.0mm of shims under the outer bearing. Torqued the flange nut up to 75 ft lb and got a good line-up for the split pin. The pinion was firm but easily turned by hand with no apparent end float. Pressed new side bearings on to the carrier, mounted the C/W with new bolts loctited and set to 55 ft lb, and re-seated into the bearing shells. We had max C/W run-out of 0.08mm and the limit is 0.1mm. Happy with that we set the lash using the left and right bearing adjustment nuts and got ourselves 0.12 mm backlash but after torqueing the bearing shells to 60 ft lb, that came back to 0.9mm when we tried to get the keepers to line up with the slots in the adjustment nuts. The limit is 0.10 to 0.17 so we're a bit tight but it aint rocket science... Ran some bearing blue into the teeth and spun the unit up. It seemed to be meshing a fraction deep, like the pinion was a bit far towards the inside of the C/W to me, but centered over the depth of the teeth so it's going back into my mates 110 this weekend.

Don't be afraid to tackle a diff. The Rover units are p1ss easy to do because the head comes out and you do it on the bench and it has side bearing adjustment nuts. The Salisbury is a bit trickier becuase it's all shims, crush-spacer and done in-situ. If you haven't got a DTI, get a Chinese one, they're fine for this sort of thing.

Ray.

[Range Rover Blues]

UJs are one of the parts you need to buy from a quality maker, I started buying GKNones and havn't had to re-replace one yet.

2" lifts will almost alwasy see off the old UJs, especially the front prop, gearbox end.

Wide-angle UJs do nothing to take the strin off the UJs either, you need a Cardan joint of some other form of CV. As the angle increases it;s not just the angle the jont deflects but the pulsing effect (non constan velocity) of the propshaft. If the UJ angles don't match the prop pulses get shunted intot he transmission, creating stress.

[Snagger]

The comments about quality of UJ, frequency of greasing and the effects of raised suspension are all correct, but there is one more issue that is equally important: driving style. If you drive with a heavy right foot ands a "binary" clutch (on/off, rather than progressive and gentle), then you can expect to destroy UJs in quick order. You will also go through drive flanges, half shafts and CV joints...

Anyway, there is an unfortunate truth in that many (not all) owners of lifted vehicles get the underside very muddy through frequent off roading (the whole point of the lift), push the transmission hard in low range (lots of torque), have an aggressive driving style (shock loadings) and do little preventative maintenance (ignoring mud soaked UJs rather than washing and greasing them). It's a bit of a case of "all the gear and no idea"; they're a lot like the Fast Show characters, even to the point of always wearing DPM trousers (the white/grey version are a particular tell-tale).

Frequent greasing on a lifted vehicle is critical, as is more gentle pedal use. The UJs should always be hosed off and re-greased after off roading, and castor correction is essential on front axles, whether through replacement radius arms or corrective bushes, to bring the UJ deflection angles closer to the original settings, reducing the torque tangental forces on them. It's the difference between each deflection angle that is important, not the individual angle - a deflected UJ creates an RMP oscillation and the second UJ needs to be deflected by the right amount to "decode" that oscillation back into a steady RPM, but lifts screw up those angles by increasing the transfer box end deflection angle and straightening the diff end UJ, so the prop shaft gets a rotational hammering action which harms the entire transmission but takes an especially hard toll on UJs - my 109 went through a pair of UJs on its rear prop every 500 miles when I fitted 1-ton spring shackles, which gives roughly a 1" lift and slightly rotates the axle case and diff in much the same way as an uncorrected coiler lift.

[Dads Toy]

On a similar vein, a chum has just started to get vibes from his rear prop so took it off but couldn't get the cups out. Tight for time he took it to a garage who now reckon it needs a new prop shaft!

They say there's too much play when they put new cups in, they slide about in the yoke - not sure how this could happen when the old one's were very tight.

Not convinced they're not trying to put wrong one's in.

Will find out tomorrow when I take him to pick it up.

Malcolm

[rick]

what kind of grease is best used on the UJ's..moly grease or some sort of marine grade. ie waterproof grease?

Well, I've been told you aren't supposed to use a moly fortified grease on needle rollers but please don't tell all the uni's I've greased for the last thirty years with Castrol LMM. (lithium complex, 3% MOS2)

I bounced it off a triboligist (oil blending specialist) once and he said he always used a moly grease on uni's too.....

BTW, the best chassis grease I've seen specs for is sold by CAT, it's a calcium sulphonate thickened, 5% MOS2 grease.

The best marine greases use a calcium sulphonate thickener, it's more water and rust resistant than any commonly used thickener.