Daan Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 As an aside : I have the ome +5" shocks that Gwyn sells - anyone know off hand what the travel is on those ? I checked when I fitted them but can't for the life of me remember.... Pretty sure it is 11". Which brings me to the suspension travel thing: I reckon 10" balanced suspension will do you, the rest has to come from the difflocks. My reasons: well, if you have a lot of suspension travel, it can - and will- get you into a lot of trouble on side slopes, of camber situations, deep hole on one corner, getting high centered etc. It may help in one situation, but not in every situation. Also, keeping a low C of G is very important, so never go over 2" I think. I found also that the terrain you drive, 99% of the cases, you can choose a line that does not require much travel. it is how I learned to drive when I was still on leaf springs and no difflocks. The video is interesting, as the little series landy is lifting wheels, but actually does drive it effortlessly, that difflock does work! But even so, I think the hill on that video could be driven without difflocks, or trick suspension; the guy in the 90 just keeps pointing at the deepest holes! Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Your point is proven a bit later in the video when the Suzuki drives it effortlessly on another line that avoids the holes. Sometimes they're unavoidable though. I'd vote for lockers too, good suspension always helps, but if one wheel is on ice and the other wheel on sandpaper (extreme examples), no amount of suspension travel will help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyRoverlander Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Even when half the suspension travel is utilised, so there still is pressure on the drooped wheel, there might not be enough traction to keep you going. A difflock will keep you going in such conditions, especially when you need maximum control at a very slow speed when crawling and you don't want it to slide of a rock for instance. With huge suspension travel you don't need to avoid the big holes and cross axle terrain making it more fun to drive the extreme lines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C18RCH Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Lockers. Suspension is all well and good for cross axled situations but what about when it is just slippy (mud, ice, snow, etc). With all 4 wheels on the ground the only thing that will help is lockers. Certainly most of my off roading (farms, fields, wood land, etc) I don't encounter cross axle situations that the standard set up can't cope with. I do encouter a lot of mud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 A bit of everything in moderation, plus practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveT247 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 A few months back I was in a position to do some mods to my Defender to improve its performance, I chose a manual locker for various reasons. Since fitting it, I've had the opportunity to go out with a couple of vehicles with a fair amount more travel than my standard suspension setup. After seeing both in action, not once have I regretted choosing the locker over suspension mods and should the need ever arise, I would choose the locker again. Outside of tyres, it's probably the best single mod you can do to improve a vehicles off road capability IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Guessing this one has a solid back axle (no diff). Certainly no trick suspension though :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nq2jY1trxqg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Guessing this one has a solid back axle (no diff). Certainly no trick suspension though :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nq2jY1trxqg 5 mins 23 into this film would suggest they had diffs http://www.filmpreservation.org/preserved-films/screening-room/dodge-motor-cars-ca-1917 Although the one in your film could be a promotional special EDIT: I take it back, that's the pinion gear ... so you are right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 We do winch challenge on standard shocks and lockers because; No weird bind ups in the suspension and prop shafts, It's less likely to roll, I don't need pull up winch (we recovered a bloke with cool flex, but it was really hampering recovery with a wheel hanging into the deep ditch), You only need one waffle board to get going, It'll still drive on two wheels while one side is in the air, The front locked makes the fiddle brakes work better (weird but true), You just drive axel twisters Progress per 'wallet damage', flex is a lot cheaper though. But the difflocks really need good shafts and CV's, and they are typically 4 pin, so you could argue difflocks arrive as part of a stronger landy axel? Which is stretching logic I know, but being able to drive backward in all types of stuck-ness on full lock without stressing about the front axel makes the whole thing more pleasurable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 At 2.32 you can see they have well decent 'tread enhancers' https://www.youtube....d&v=nq2jY1trxqg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Ah, mud chains on the rear wheels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 lockers without flex will only get you so far. I used to be very happy with radius arms front and rear, mainly because they were predictable, stable, pretty tough and with lockers worked well (or so i thought). But i began to find more and more situations where having only 2 (or 3) tyres on the ground wasn't enough to drive up, over or through obsticles. whilst i could have just winched these obsticles. i got in to offroading to drive not to be dragged around by the winch whilst building roads with waffles. So i altered mine to 3 link front and rear, and the improvements were huge. And it was a lot more stable and i found i could spend a lot less time with my lockers in meaning that i had better control of the steering which in turn made it nicer to drive and feel a lot more nimble. I think a lot of the instability that people experiance with flexi suspension isn't as a result of the suspension system it is caused by being sprung way too softly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 i got in to offroading to drive not to be dragged around by the winch whilst building roads with waffles. Very well put Dan. Mind if I borrow that quote occasionally ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Well, this thread has inspired me to sort the front suspension on my truck out, I know it is too stiff, time to get my thinking cap on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 Well, this thread has inspired me to sort the front suspension on my truck out, I know it is too stiff, time to get my thinking cap on! Glad something was achieved by this thread When I was changing the front shocks I was actually quite surprised by how much travel there actually is on the standard setup, I plan on lockers front and rear on this truck but I was keen to see what folk thought on the whole traction advantage front, whether suspension was equal to lockers in some respects? The only thing I would want more from the front end is good articulation without stuffing the taller tyres through the inner arches, suppose I will be scouring the various threads around here to see what can be achieved without too much modification, whether it be more flexible bushings or what I am not sure but I am also considering ride height too as the only reason to go higher is to clear the tyres. I am starting to see an end to getting the truck on the road now and as we get closer to that day my head is wandering towards wondering how far we actually want to go with this build? I am not so keen as to want to run two trucks so it kind of has to be compromises on some bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Well, this thread has inspired me to sort the front suspension on my truck out, I know it is too stiff, time to get my thinking cap on! Slotted bushes or 3 link ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Hell I am only on some 4-year old +2 procomps on the front, poly bushes in radius arms, anything is going to be an improvement Like the idea of a one-link + panhard, but as it will do road miles as well, bit worried about stability.... Cambridge Fabrication was doing them at some point as a bolt-on, but can't find anything recent... Couple of videos though: Plus of course I know nothing about the relative geometry and how well it would indeed fair on the road or not... but I guess this is all for another thread, and a vapour one that that for the moment Oh, a thread on Devon about it: http://www.devon4x4.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&catid=5&id=114983&Itemid=106&view=topic My truck is going for IVA when life lets me, so no worries on that front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_grieve Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 That's good to see folks properly playing with their motor. Good choice of obstacle, what helped more here, diff locks or suspension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 what helped more here, diff locks or suspension? A lead right foot I think! Joking aside, the above doesn't really demonstrate good suspension, just that it won't fall off if you ram it into a log There are far too many other variables involved to make any sort of judgement about how good it was/is -but apparently 100mph (on the autobahn) and it was totally stable..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 I was not so impressed as there was no real demonstration of flex just clambering over a log and that could have been done with big tyres and a chopped back front end. Would have been nice to have seen it on flex ramps or like bills Wyld Fing where one front wheel climbed a vertical tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_grieve Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Yeah, I agree, it was a kind of rhetorical question especially as there wasn't any difflock action either. I just thought it was a cool video. I think Bill's 6x6 might have been more relevant to the conversation but I think this log is bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 People often forget what standard suspension can do, this was 2nd version with long shocks & dislocating springs but basically standard RR/Defender suspension links, tyres are 40" for reference: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Achieving flex on the rear is easy - it's balanced flex from the front that's harder and more desirable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 At about 33s in the first vid, you can see there is some serious flex on the front.... albeit for a second or so I know RTI ramps aren't (again) a good indication of a good suspension setup, but apparently it won LRO Billing competition 2011: http://www.devon4x4.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&catid=5&id=111021&Itemid=106&view=topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 The Devon discussions don't really go anywhere, just arguing semantics,unqualified criticism and theoretical input from those who have little understanding of the forces involved. For your information Will, One Links and their torque tube equivalent have been employed on many heavy duty, hard working vehicles other than T model Fords over the decades. There are Scammel Pioneer, Mountaineer, Explorer, Mercedes Unimogs, just to name a few. None of the above are famous for their front axles falling off, causing the truck to lose control and run into a bus full of nuns and school children! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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