Roof lights and glare.

[Mr Noisy]

Well I will happily drive around with 6 roof lights and 4 tyres sticking out my arches not getting pulled thankyou very much.

[Mr Noisy]

^^^^ the point of the daft post above was to illustrate that not all rules are enforced.

[honitonhobbit]

I think what Mike is meaning is that USING roof lights on the Queen's Highway is illegal - and he is also right to quote the C&U regs as having precedent in law over the lighting regs. It is unlikely that anyone will take you to task about it until you have caused an accident by using said roof lights on the public highway; and then you will be a target for the book and all the poo that has just hit the fan. But then this is the same for the host of potentially illegal mods so common amongst 4x4 owners.

[mmgemini]

Well I will happily drive around with 6 roof lights and 4 tyres sticking out my arches not getting pulled thankyou very much.

Next time you see a proper Mini, look at how far the standard out of the factory tyres stick out of the wheel arch.

What about the spare wheel on the rear door ? What have you done about that ?

[LiamC]

The spare on the back door of a Defender doesn't comply with construction and use. Not sure about a Series as I've never measured one.

So are you saying that the spare wheel on the back door of my defender is illegal even though it was manufactured like that?

[mmgemini]

So are you saying that the spare wheel on the back door of my defender is illegal even though it was manufactured like that?

YES.I've been warned over a similar thing. That's why I have MOD bumberetts fitted to the rear.

[LiamC]

So what's wrong with it exactly? Why is it illegal? How did land rover get type approval?

[mmgemini]

Construction and use.

Nothing more than six inches from the body. What's the width of a Defender wheel and tyre ?

FORD once produced some cars with a hydraulic handbrake......Must be mechanical

[Maverik]

So why are roof light illegal? I'm yet to find what the illigality of fitting them is? I'm getting a tad annoyed with this thread as no one can provide me proof, and its threads like this that give "old wives tales" even more weight without people actually knowing what is right and what is wrong.

I don't doubt there are contradictions in the statutary instruments but again I'd like to see it. And if you provide it I'll gladly take some humble pie but from what I have read so far your claims are base less.

I think what Mike is meaning is that USING roof lights on the Queen's Highway is illegal - and he is also right to quote the C&U regs as having precedent in law over the lighting regs. It is unlikely that anyone will take you to task about it until you have caused an accident by using said roof lights on the public highway; and then you will be a target for the book and all the poo that has just hit the fan. But then this is the same for the host of potentially illegal mods so common amongst 4x4 owners.

And the same again, it says in black and white you can have as many as you want as long as they are switched as per your standard high beams...

[Mr Noisy]

It smells a bit fishy to me.

Particularly spare wheel argument.

Could be a monster loop hole somehow but I'm inclined to say surely not, I really wish this could be explained.

I mean, most of all I'm interested!

[Nigelw]

I have come up with a cunning plan and maybe a tidyish solution to the potential drag caused by less than aerodynamic lumps bolted on randomly on the roof as well as eliminating the glare.

We'll see.

[simonr]

As a retailer of lights which are mostly used on Land Rover roofs, I received a number of emails from people stating they were illegal to even fit, never mind use in the UK - so I sought legal advice on the matter. My solicitor contacted everyone they could think of regarding roof lights and the legality thereof.

The boiled down result was that there is no restriction on the number or type fitted to the roof, so long as they were white or yellow in colour. They may be switched on with the main beam so long as they switch off with dip beam AND they are fitted with an additional switch (isolating device) such that they can be disabled whether main or dip beam is in use.

There is very little definite in law or regulation on the matter, but that seems to be what most of the authorities work to. The only proviso to this is that you must not use them to dazzle nor cause a nuisance to other people.

This advice was thus reflected in the fitting instructions, which were endorsed by both my solicitor and by the local police, at least as far as the switching of said lights was concerned.

The investigation did not as it turned out satisfy most of the people who complained as they felt that their (un-named) source was of greater authority. My suggestion to them was that they did not fit them to their vehicle, but I would rely on the legal advice I had received.

I think my roof lights provide useful lighting, particularly driving on narrow country lanes round Sussex which are full of pot holes and other obstacles. My headlights are also very good - but the roof lights fill in the gaps nicely. I don't care for BIG roof lights - which is why my X-Lights came into existence in the first place!

Si

[sean f]

Difficult to believe a major manufacture could get type approval for a vehicle that is illegal, so I would assume all FACTORY extras would be legal, such as rear mounted spares. If I got any grief over something like this it would be the manufacture who I would put in court for selling a product that is not fir for purpose, i.e. a car for use on public roads that is not legal on public roads.

As for roof lights I have a set of X-Lights fitted which I find work great, they are mostly used for lamping, driving across a field at night it really helps to be able to see dips or lumps a bit better rather than hit them at 30mph. One of my land rovers used to have a hole in the front wing where I hit a ditch and the guy in the back was thrown about enough to shoot the wing, a 12 bore from several feet makes quite a nice big hole all the way through!. I have the lights switched through the main beam and a seperate isolator as Simon suggests and normally have them isolated when on public roads.

For those people overseas where laws are different, shooting with a lamp and / or from a vehicle is legal in the UK provided it is done with the land owners permission, in a safe way and doesn't cause danger or distress to any other members of the public, i.e. don't do it next to a main road or anything else silly.

[mmgemini]

Construction and use.

No lights no be fitted behind the center line of the front axle.

Construction and use

Nothing to be fitted more than 6" from the bodywork of a vehicle.

I agree that as long as you don't dazzle other people it's fine.

As I said look at the original Mini. Front wheels are not fully covered.

Look at the number of cars on the road fitted with a tow hitch that covers the number plate making the plate unreadable.

[Mr Noisy]

Had a scab through 160 odd page construction and use last night, plenty on lighting but couldn't find spare wheels

[LiamC]

I wonder if the 6" thing means out to the side? Otherwise bike racks would also be illegal, so would a winch bumper, never mind a plank of wood on the roof rack sticking out a couple of fee or so.

[Boydie]

Oh dear, quite legal in Oz, excepting Queensland but as my Disco is registered in NSW the plod in Qld have to grin and bear it, seriously I have A 48" 2400watt LED strip light mounted on my roof rack and with the matt black bonnet there is no glare, I only use it off road and the illumination is out of this world. Great for night time shooting.

[discomikey]

Construction and use.

No lights no be fitted behind the center line of the front axle.

Construction and use

Nothing to be fitted more than 6" from the bodywork of a vehicle.

what i would class as fitted 6" from bodywork would include lights on the roof. as the "fittings" or mounts are less than 6" i would however have agreed if it were to say PROTRUDING 6" from bodywork rather than fitted. ??

I agree that as long as you don't dazzle other people it's fine.

As I said look at the original Mini. Front wheels are not fully covered.

IIRC the sidewall can be sticking out as much as it likes and it was a certain amount (40mm???) of tread too, anyrhing over that amount was illegal. dont cite me on this as its only what i have been told and i havent researched it. but like you said, who would pull you over for a smidge of tread outside the arches?

Look at the number of cars on the road fitted with a tow hitch that covers the number plate making the plate unreadable.

I guess more than anything, it is down to perception of the above regulations, as i can percieve 6" from the bodywork as a mounting, you could percieve the whole thing.

also, i might percieve the spare tyre mount as being part of the bodywork, after all i would imagine thats where youll find it in the parts manual? therefore the tyre only sticks out a further 2-3" maybe?

I wonder if the 6" thing means out to the side? Otherwise bike racks would also be illegal, so would a winch bumper, never mind a plank of wood on the roof rack sticking out a couple of fee or so.

IIRC you can stick out a foot either side, and a metre over the back. again dont cite me as i have only ever gone off of farmer law in the past with regards to abnormal loads! (I.E. if you think it might be illegal, put reflectors all over it, whack the beacons on stick to the back lanes and dont go too fast!)

[tacr2man]

They are still illegal. You will not find anything in lighting regulations look elsewhere.

However glare is no problem if you follow my first post.

Beg to differ , look at a lot of the latest trucks , i dont mean the add-ons , they are fitted as standard eg Scania , DAF . They did used to be illegal , It was part of my job back then to know such things

[mmgemini]

Beg to differ , look at a lot of the latest trucks , i dont mean the add-ons , they are fitted as standard eg Scania , DAF . They did used to be illegal , It was part of my job back then to know such things

PLEASE

READ what I have posted.

Roof lights on a Scania or other cab over truck are very legal.

[GW8IZR]

What would be the difference between a roof mounted light, an orange beacon or indeed a roof rack?

[Maverik]

ok, I've just reviewed all 168 pages including 2005 Amendment of:

1986 No. 1078

ROAD TRAFFIC

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986

Linked here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/made/data.pdf

At no point have I found ANY references to driving lights/auxiliary driving lights or main driving lights in this document- only references to indication devices.

And funnily enough it references

The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1984.

Unless a PAGE, PARAGRAPH, DOCUMENT reference can be provided in support then this discussion on illegality of lights on the roof is over, there is no sound proof to justify said topic is "illegal".

Don't get me started on the spare wheel issue, apart from the fact that the initially referenced document "1986 No. 1078 ROAD TRAFFIC The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986" is in Metric.

[o_teunico]

Don´t know if UK ruling is made according to EU regulations, and therefore, same as in Spain.

In Spain roof lights are illegal, unless catalogued as "work lamps", with the switch OUTSIDE the car and working only with ignition off. Land Rover in UK switched that way the roof lights mounted to "Tomb Raider" limited edition units shipped to Spain.

Also ilegal because they are not "in the front of the car". That´s the reason for beeing OK on lorries and forward controls.

I fitted some to our previous 88". Worked great, but I had "just" four. Six will be the mínimum for me. Two pointing down and to the sides, two down to front and two other straight front.

In my current 88" (with Series V body, same as a 90) I´m planning to use a led bar INSIDE cab on top of the windscreen (with something like a box preventing the glare expanding in the cab). This will be quite difficult to be detected by trafic patrols if switched off. Will be used only off road.

The paint (dark blue) is already matt in my vehicle, so glare in bonett should not be a problema.

[tacr2man]

Don´t know if UK ruling is made according to EU regulations, and therefore, same as in Spain.

In Spain roof lights are illegal, unless catalogued as "work lamps", with the switch OUTSIDE the car and working only with ignition off. Land Rover in UK switched that way the roof lights mounted to "Tomb Raider" limited edition units shipped to Spain.

Also ilegal because they are not "in the front of the car". That´s the reason for beeing OK on lorries and forward controls.

I fitted some to our previous 88". Worked great, but I had "just" four. Six will be the mínimum for me. Two pointing down and to the sides, two down to front and two other straight front.

In my current 88" (with Series V body, same as a 90) I´m planning to use a led bar INSIDE cab on top of the windscreen (with something like a box preventing the glare expanding in the cab). This will be quite difficult to be detected by trafic patrols if switched off. Will be used only off road.

The paint (dark blue) is already matt in my vehicle, so glare in bonett should not be a problema.

Not all regs in EU are unified , (thank god) , so what they say is that if vehicle is legal in state of registration then that has to be accepted in all other states . This is applied variably , depending on which country you are visiting unfortunately . The EU is moving towards full harmonisation , which will be very bad news for enthusiasts , as their basic position is that vehicles which are type approved , will not be modifiable , as that will contravene the type approval. This is even to the point that OBD ports will be accessed , to see if anything has been altered , and to check emissions , DVSA are looking at suitable scanners ATM . The probe up exhaust is not sophisticated enough !

[Mr Noisy]

^^^ bad times!

Time to pull out!