landroversforever Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Question for the masses following on from my thread the other day which lewis put some great suggestions into (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=89471). If you were a few weeks away from ordering a new chassis, what would you have added to it on top of the standard before galvanising? I have a list on the other computer with a list of things including Cage mounts, rear recovery eyes,rear winch 'letter box', bash plate mounts, holes (with crush tubes) in place of engine mounts etc. (I can't currently think of any of the other things on the list!! I'm building my 90 once and I want to build it right, I want to future-proof the chassis as much as possible. The use will be green laning, some small punch hunts and lots of pay and play. I'm keeping with the station wagon body so no teatray-backs or space frames. So what would you have added to the chassis before galvansing? All suggestions are welcome . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Best get the cheque book ready, once you start adding non standard one off's to the chassis build the cost shoots up very fast lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 IMHO I would order the basic chassis in bare steel, then make the mods you want yourself, then when you are happy with it all get it galvanised yourself. Jon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I reckon Jon is right, partly because of what Les said but also because explaining to someone over the phone what extras you want is likely to end up going badly wrong, even if you send loads of CAD drawings there will still be the opportunity for misinterpretation. The only way a fussy bugger like you will be truly happy is to do the mods yourself .... anyway you'll enjoy it and you can actually weld properly IIRC, so save some money and save time by not having to bang your head against a brick wall while trying to explain the changes you desire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 IMHO I would order the basic chassis in bare steel, then make the mods you want yourself, then when you are happy with it all get it galvanised yourself. Jon This is what I had in mind for if I ever get to do one for myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Bottom plate of the chassis between the spring hangers in 6mm with a few ~ 45mm dimpled die'd holes in for drainage and cleanin, delete those stupid mud traps either side of the a frame x member or box in with cage mounts, stronger rear x member, flush in the gearbox x member and beef it up? I'd be tempted to increase wall thickness in the tubular outriggers and better designed bulkhead outriggers? That's as much as I can think of at the moment with what others have said.... Will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 Thanks all for the ideas so far, keep them coming. All are useful . I reckon Jon is right, partly because of what Les said but also because explaining to someone over the phone what extras you want is likely to end up going badly wrong, even if you send loads of CAD drawings there will still be the opportunity for misinterpretation.The only way a fussy bugger like you will be truly happy is to do the mods yourself .... anyway you'll enjoy it and you can actually weld properly IIRC, so save some money and save time by not having to bang your head against a brick wall while trying to explain the changes you desire. Richards are open to doing extras and changing things so I will see how easy it is to communicate things to them (and cost) before I start making changes myself. I can weld, but MIG isn't great (probably not helped by the crappy borrowed set). and my TIG skills are only in stainless (I've no idea how easily they transfer to mild). Best get the cheque book ready, once you start adding non standard one off's to the chassis build the cost shoots up very fast lol I'll cross the money bridge when I have to, its not going to be cheap either way but I see it as an investment in the future. Obviously if the one-off aspect of the pricing becomes too much I can live with out some things or do them myself as suggested. Bottom plate of the chassis between the spring hangers in 6mm with a few ~ 45mm dimpled die'd holes in for drainage and cleanin, delete those stupid mud traps either side of the a frame x member or box in with cage mounts, stronger rear x member, flush in the gearbox x member and beef it up? I'd be tempted to increase wall thickness in the tubular outriggers and better designed bulkhead outriggers?That's as much as I can think of at the moment with what others have said....Will. I'd have thought they would just let it fill up? Changing that idea slightly, it could be worth having some attachments in the chassis for washing the crud through and out one end. Gearbox crossmemember - fantastic idea. I was already planning on remaking as part of the under body protection, but hadn't thought about making it flush with the bottom of the chassis. My current crossmember and its lower mounts are BATTERED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I know I'm going to open a can here but be careful what you alter as you may run into IVA type issues as technically you can only replace with a like for like chassis. So do some research so at least you can make your own mind up. Mind I like the cross member idea or how about mounting your rear winch in a tray that doubles as the a frame cross member then you can guide the rope wherever you want. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 I know I'm going to open a can here but be careful what you alter as you may run into IVA type issues as technically you can only replace with a like for like chassis. So do some research so at least you can make your own mind up. Mind I like the cross member idea or how about mounting your rear winch in a tray that doubles as the a frame cross member then you can guide the rope wherever you want. Mike Can is welcome here Mike, I want to be above board in what I do. Would be interesting to know exactly how far the 'like for like' goes, as the Richards is made of 4 sides rather than two C sections like the standard one. Its another reason against the holes in the underside mentioned by Muddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_grieve Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 In addition to what's already been said I'd put thicker plates where the radius arms go through the outriggers.In any kind of offset front accident the arms get pushed through the outriggers and the front wheels end up in the footwells. I'd also make sure the ends of the front of the chassis are closed off. In later ones they were open which not only let muck and water in but was also less metal in front of the bumper bolts. Crush tubes on the bumper holes instead of the stupid folded sections used by the factory. I would also get it made in as thick a section as is possible. The tiny bit of extra weight is low down where you want it and it will add longevity and be more resistant to flexing and body rattles. Anything that can be done to improve the A frame mounting has to be worth doing. Passenger side fuel tank mounts? Rear NAS style fuel tank mounts? Mount the battery on the chassis instead of under the seat? Captive nuts on rear body mounts Closed corners on the crossmember Ferry lashing / recovery rings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Can is welcome here Mike, I want to be above board in what I do. Would be interesting to know exactly how far the 'like for like' goes, as the Richards is made of 4 sides rather than two C sections like the standard one. Iirc the book says original manufacturer specification which is pretty thin I would say as long as it looks like original with added bits you should be ok. Depending who you talk to depends on whether or not you need an IVA after a chassis swap. The trouble is the rules were based on monocoque cars without a chassis..... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Ferry lashing / recovery rings? Wildly OT, but is there a JADTEU scheme for defender? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Yes, but it won"t be available to the general public,JATE rings are only used for underslinging LR's from helicopters, not for recovery jobs in military use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 In addition to what's already been said I'd put thicker plates where the radius arms go through the outriggers. In any kind of offset front accident the arms get pushed through the outriggers and the front wheels end up in the footwells. I'd also make sure the ends of the front of the chassis are closed off. In later ones they were open which not only let muck and water in but was also less metal in front of the bumper bolts. I think all richards ones are closed at the front. Crush tubes on the bumper holes instead of the stupid folded sections used by the factory. good idea, not sure how much extra strength it will add though. I would also get it made in as thick a section as is possible. The tiny bit of extra weight is low down where you want it and it will add longevity and be more resistant to flexing and body rattles. It will be mainly standard Richards thickness with maybe the underside of the main rails a bit thicker. Anything that can be done to improve the A frame mounting has to be worth doing. Got any ideas on what to add? Passenger side fuel tank mounts? Batteries are staying under the seat. Rear NAS style fuel tank mounts? rear winch will be in the space the tank would be. I think extra fuel capacity would just be an extra tank in the rear or jerry cans when needed. Mount the battery on the chassis instead of under the seat? Captive nuts on rear body mounts Access isn't too bad and I'd worry about any damage in the future meaning I have to cut them off. Closed corners on the crossmember Plans are afoot for reducing mud traps. Ferry lashing / recovery rings? The front ones are on the bumper, however the rear crossmember is going to have a couple of loops inline with the main chassis rails. Iirc the book says original manufacturer specification which is pretty thin I would say as long as it looks like original with added bits you should be ok. Depending who you talk to depends on whether or not you need an IVA after a chassis swap. The trouble is the rules were based on monocoque cars without a chassis..... Mike They're unlikely to fuss over a bit of extra thickness I'd have thought. most bits are going to look factory, I want her to look factory to an outsider, standard plus I like to call it . IVA... well that's not far off when I looked at the points I need 8 or more... Chassis - Assuming the new one counts - 5 points Suspension - got genuine LR springs but OME shocks? its the same design - 2 points? Axles - One has been replaced with a disco axle - 0 points unless I get 1 for one axle? Transmission - currently got the original gearbox but likely to be rebuilt/swapped? - 2 points Steering assembly - Has been replaced with a PAS box - 0 points Engine - been replaced - 0 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 If you rebuild the original box you are in.. if you get the original rebuilt it gets a new number. Now I don't know if it matters but when Ashcroft did mine I got them to retain the original number and they also stamped theirs underneath it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 They're unlikely to fuss over a bit of extra thickness I'd have thought. most bits are going to look factory, I want her to look factory to an outsider, standard plus I like to call it . IVA... well that's not far off when I looked at the points I need 8 or more... Chassis - Assuming the new one counts - 5 points Suspension - got genuine LR springs but OME shocks? its the same design - 2 points? Axles - One has been replaced with a disco axle - 0 points unless I get 1 for one axle? Transmission - currently got the original gearbox but likely to be rebuilt/swapped? - 2 points Steering assembly - Has been replaced with a PAS box - 0 points Engine - been replaced - 0 points. I would not worry about all the parts that are like for like replacements - including the chassis. Iva only comes only really into play if you start cutting the chassis. Since you are only adding bits - don't even start to consider getting near iva. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 If you rebuild the original box you are in.. if you get the original rebuilt it gets a new number. Now I don't know if it matters but when Ashcroft did mine I got them to retain the original number and they also stamped theirs underneath it. So who would know what number the original gearbox has? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW8IZR Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Me.. And that's what counts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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