rekab69 Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Hi Guys, My 110 has a damaged snorkel which I could fix without to much effort, but I personally don't like the look of them... (sorry). I have no plans to go wading up to my bonnet so do I really need to re install it..? Do they make any difference to performance, ram air effect..? Going back to my Suzuki GT380 days now... Happy New Year to you all.. db. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Most of them reduce performance ... and most of them arent really waterproof either ! I'm in two minds. I virtually never go wading - but it only takes getting caught out once to justify one...... I'm not sure what the answer is ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Ram air effect on a turbo charged engine? Yeah errrrrr, no it doesnt happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Ram air effect has very very little performance improvement in fact in this application the pressure losses from the longer and converluted intake air duct route will by far exceed the pressure gained from ram air effect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I saw this and it really put me off the idea of a snorkel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlBaj8y8X9Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 The other thing I've noticed since fitting a properly sealed snorkel is about a 10 degree reduction in temperature of the air going into the plenum. Cooler air = denser air which has to be a good thing right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 What kind of snorkel do you have Mick ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Cooler air is always better (prevention of knock on a high compression engine running low octane fuel) but as far as improved power... Not sure so much (depends on viewpoint) A 10 deg c reduction in charge temperature is about a 0.04 kg/m3 air density improvement (30degc to 20 deg c/50%rh sensible cooling [no change in moisture content]) which is about 3.4% density change improvement.... So in simple terms a 3.4% improvement in power (as fuel ratio is kg air to kg fuel and we improved the kg air by 3.4%) but at the cost of some ductwork ... The problem comes with not the straight sections of ductwork but any bends you put in it greater then about 22.5 degree because of the turbulence (sorry not got my duct software here but have a psychometric chart .... Sad git). The pressure losses have the effect of changing the air pressure and therefore charge density so at a guess I'd say that the improvement is about a 2% power increase on a landrover with high aerodynamic issues plus huge drivetrain losses and most engines not putting out more than 150 Bhp ... 3.5hp gain ok say 5hp if you think I'm way off on my rough estimate But a chrome bonnet scoop on a 1960's us muscle car or dragster (where it does bring improvements) always looks good Note that the dragster won't have long duct runs or an air filter and has huge horsepower to start with so 3.5% of a lot is well worth it plus the air volume they require is phenomenal. Likewise if your tuning an engine for every ounce of performance it may be worth it too. Also consider that normal stochiometric fuel mixture is 14.7:1 but maximum power is suppose to happen at about 12.9:1 mixture ratio (kg air to kg fuel) so changing from a narrow band lambda sensor to a programable wide band lambda sensor where you offset the narrow band output to 12.9:1 will bring you more than 5hp (3.5%) improvement but can your bank balance afford it all the time Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I have a snorkel but it's not connected. Find it strangles the v8 for top end and throttle response. 2.5 diameter pipe. If you don't go swimming I don't think you need one. Ideally have one but only connect it up when needed. I think you take a 5% fuel hit as the engine doesn't like breathing through a straw that much even if it is cooler air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 The way I look at it if you have a snorkel you won't need it but if you don't you can guarantee you'll end up somewhere you do. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Pete it's all down to duct bends, but if you're on carbs then that is another story as the needles have a profile shape which match the air flow throughout the rev range and now you've added something that changes that profile requirement Each to their own I don't profess to be an expert of anything but if you need and use a snorkel then put one on if not then don't (you could always connect it when required too same as the bellhousing plugs are suppose to be done etc when wading) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 You are rebuilding a Puma aren't you? As well as being an advantage when wading it also helps to reduce dust intake if you are using the Defender in dusty conditions. Even though you are in the driest county in the UK I doubt you have massively dusty conditions, If you don't like a snorkel don't fit it .... but on a turbo charged engine I doubt it has much negative effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekab69 Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 In my case it was on when I bought it, always thought it unnecessary for road driving which is my bag.. Tow a plant trailer too.. Can't ever see me deliberately going wading, if I was in a flash flood situation I'd leave the 110 and go surfing.. One good condition snorkel going on ebay in the new year... Thanks for all your replies.. Happy New Year.. db. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 .....My 110 has a damaged snorkel which I could fix without to much effort..... ..... One good condition snorkel going on ebay in the new year... Happy new year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Just to add the wading depth on a Defender ain't that shabby without a snorkel anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 The way I look at it if you have a snorkel you won't need it but if you don't you can guarantee you'll end up somewhere you do. Mike I had one of those benny hill moments in my 90 laning in Wales - looked like a shallow flooded section of track, I trundled into it and suddenly it was level with the bottom of the windows....Almost as if the farmer had dug a skip shaped hole out of the track, which filled with water... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekab69 Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Crazy Rabbit.. "which I could fix without to much effort...." It's really just pulled the rivinuts out of the wing... db. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Crazy Rabbit.. "which I could fix without to much effort...." It's really just pulled the rivinuts out of the wing... db. I guessed it was something simple, I was just taking the rise a little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jocklandjohn Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I don't wade that much unless necessary, but recent flooding events all over the country have had one very common thing happen, which I've seen in the flesh, watched on tv news numerous times and very recently was the 'victim' of. Its the wnaker in the 4x4 going hell-for-leather into the flood. It happened to me a month or so ago: 18+ inches of water all over the road, a couple of small hatchbacks in front of me, another few behind. As we inched through the deluge a tosser in a Shogun or similar came barrelling through from the other side, didn't even slow down and sent a massive wave right over the top of the first cars and right in my partly open side window, with the wave coming right up over my bonnet. I suspect 4x4 boy may have done for the first car which pulled in after we got out of the 'river' and ground to a halt. I actually pulled across in front of a 4x4 on one occasion as I could see what he was going to do so drifted over the (submerged) white line right in front of him, that slowed him down big style but he was not happy. If I'd not had a snorkel fitted I suspect I'd have had a trashed engine on at least two occasions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Forget the wading bit The raised air intake will keep the engine air intake cleaner than it will do lower down. It helps in a dusty enviroment as well. Look at the pictures of the Hillman Imp rally cars built in the 1970's. They had the air filter on the roof !!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 If you are not wading , or in outback type dusty conditions . the standard aircleaner is perfectly adequate , ditch it , as it causes extra drag , and weight , but serves no purpose so why have it , that's where newer defenders have gone off , function over form . JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_pete Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I think that straight sections also introduce drag to the airflow. The air needs to move over the stationary pipe section which if the pipe isn't there it doesn't have to. Bends are worse of course. I look a the wade height I'd be at to have the air intake under and ok the engine still breathes but I'd have all sorts of other water ingress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 If you do find yourself in a ford wich isn't really all that deep but your intake is on the upstream side you can soon be up to that level if you have to stop/reverse ect. I put a snorkel on my 90 for peace of mind, previously I have had to cross swollen fords/flooded roads out of necessity and it's one less thing to worry about, the same reason I don't run road tyres, why have a 4x4 that can't safely drive across a wet field or through a ford. Will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Hi Guys, Do they make any difference to performance, ram air effect..? Going back to my Suzuki GT380 days now... Happy New Year to you all.. db. Naughty Suzuki were a bit misleading. That "ram air effect" referred to the design of the cooling fins on the cylinder heads. Looked snazzy but, if anything, it restricted airflow a little and wouldn't have helped. The only snorkel I have ever used was on a 1987 Range Rover. It was simply an fifteen inch length of pipe sticking straight out of the wing, tractor style, with a proper fitting on top to keep the rain out. The main advantage was I could actually see if I was getting in trouble, which you can't do with an under-bonnet intake. On one trip, I saw the bonnet go under five times but the intake was fine. That vehicle was the only one I ever subjected to such deep water - it was remarkably water-proof. While I appreciate the security of a snorkel, I think they're a bit of a gimmick for the vast majority of people, which comes at a fuel cost (see above). As someone else mentioned, there'll be a lot of water damage long before the snorkel gets tested. I do a lot of river work and don't worry about a snorkel. Proper technique says you won't cross something when you don't know the depth/softness, that you'll pick the shallow route and that you'll respect the vehicle as much as possible by trying not to get too wet. Actually, the depth that tests a standard air intake will also test carpets, starter motors, all the seals on your axles/wheel bearings/transmission, drum brakes and so on. Of course, if your vehicle is there to be used in serious anger, a snorkel is mandatory and you will expect a big maintenance bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Of course, if your vehicle is there to be used in serious anger, a snorkel is mandatory and you will expect a big maintenance bill. That sentence exactly describes my useage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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