Motivating factors?

[Nigelw]

Been kicking around this idea again of a repower, tons to choose from, all have their own perils and pitfalls along the fitting and fettling route.

But my question to those that have repowered with an outsourced engine or engine gearbox combo is, what was your key motivation?

Not really applicable to those who fitted a 2/300Tdi in a series lol

[tacr2man]

fuel economy with similar power to the original engine , with designed reliability, and minimum of special parts.

[Bowie69]

Sound, everything else doesn't really matter

[need4speed]

Sound. And torque that pushes you into the seat..

[alland]

hmmmm nige has to be the cummins 6bt engine for me sounds great loads of power bit heavy though have a look on u tube

[landroversforever]

For me the main reasons for the Merc lump in no particular order:

• Sound - 6 pots sound gorgeous!
• Power - more power than a Tdi to start with and the sky is the limit (if I so wish)
• Strength and reliability - the swedes and Fins love them for drifting with silly amounts of horsepower, so with less power the reliability and strength should be good.
• Economy - power when I need it, but should have reasonable economy when I'm not on it

[tacr2man]

Should have added that's why I chose the BMW m57 3ltr to replace the 3.9i V8

[De Ranged]

Set and forget motor trans combo.... these things will do half a million k's, Lots of torque for towing.... diesel for economy and range, indirect injection diesel, a pipe dream of playing with LPG misting to improve both economy and performance

The auto because I wanted one... I shift gears for a living, I want this to be something my partner can drive and I can relax in on a long drive

So basicly reliability, power, economy and room to be creative.... and lazy lol

and also because I've never heard of it being done before lol and its a bit of a challenge

[Nigelw]

All very valid points, especially power and reliability!

As everyone knows, my Disco has a 200Tdi engine with a crunchy gearbox. Costings for gearbox are almost a grand, doable from a point of, better than being back on a bike for groceries, but the engine swap reared its head in a way to reduce my rather heavy tax burden by swapping to petrol, subsided when I was looking at potential donors with a suitable engine saw silly prices for write off cars, but having done a years motoring and checking of the dipstick and monitoring blowby out of the rocker cover, it seems the 200Tdi might not live much longer without major overhauling, I find a pint of oil per 1000kms a bit excessive, blowby is not really any worse but it was already noticeable, intercooler needs cleaned every 5000kms as sludge is always present.

I have done very little but think about the various engines that could be fitted, trouble is, 200 and 300Tdi are almost off my list, they are just getting too old and almost all the engines I have seen are reminiscent of my past experiences in replacing Rover V8s in RRCs, worn out, neglected and in need of a rebuild for 6 out of the 7 engines, and one that we got as as "a good'un" was worse than the one we spent half a day taking out!!! It seems a better bet to avoid LR related engines and move in a different direction.

OM606? Nah, everyone is doing one.

Cummins 6BT? Won't fit in the engine bay of a Disco.

Isuzu 4BD1T? Hard to source here on mainland for some reason?

BMW M57? Doable, but hard to know if it'll fit in the Disco engine bay withou too much surgery?

Anyone got anything better for me to think about?

I have looked at the Merc OM642 also, very electronic but maybe a better option than the Lion 2.7/3.0?

[Cynic-al]

What about the P38 / BMW diesel engine and gearbox? 6 cyl and it's been fitted to land rovers so there must be doable gearbox combo?

My memory could be wrong but I'm sure Dirty Diesel put an Isuzu diesel in a Shogun with a Range Rover autobox and it looked to drive well. Might be worth asking him what the details were?

My Isuzu diesel seem to be a decent engine, not fast, doesn't like being revved but pulls really well. I was going up a 33% hill the other day at idle in second without stalling and it accelerated when I wanted it too as well

[Josh NZ]

Dare I say it... Toyota diesel? Or is that too expensive/similar to what's in there now? My 13BT is fantastic or a 4.2?

[tacr2man]

All very valid points, especially power and reliability!

As everyone knows, my Disco has a 200Tdi engine with a crunchy gearbox. Costings for gearbox are almost a grand, doable from a point of, better than being back on a bike for groceries, but the engine swap reared its head in a way to reduce my rather heavy tax burden by swapping to petrol, subsided when I was looking at potential donors with a suitable engine saw silly prices for write off cars, but having done a years motoring and checking of the dipstick and monitoring blowby out of the rocker cover, it seems the 200Tdi might not live much longer without major overhauling, I find a pint of oil per 1000kms a bit excessive, blowby is not really any worse but it was already noticeable, intercooler needs cleaned every 5000kms as sludge is always present.

I have done very little but think about the various engines that could be fitted, trouble is, 200 and 300Tdi are almost off my list, they are just getting too old and almost all the engines I have seen are reminiscent of my past experiences in replacing Rover V8s in RRCs, worn out, neglected and in need of a rebuild for 6 out of the 7 engines, and one that we got as as "a good'un" was worse than the one we spent half a day taking out!!! It seems a better bet to avoid LR related engines and move in a different direction.

OM606? Nah, everyone is doing one.

Cummins 6BT? Won't fit in the engine bay of a Disco.

Isuzu 4BD1T? Hard to source here on mainland for some reason?

BMW M57? Doable, but hard to know if it'll fit in the Disco engine bay withou too much surgery?

Anyone got anything better for me to think about?

I have looked at the Merc OM642 also, very electronic but maybe a better option than the Lion 2.7/3.0?

Only surgery is weld in engine mounts . bolt up to 380 with p38 front end , use td5 rad and intercooler , i think less room in a defender than discovery underbonnet. need to make front pipe to go across under bellhousing to couple to existing exhaust (if V8)

[landroversforever]

I wouldn't say everyone is going an OM606.... DirtyDiesel has one to fit but not done so yet. I only know of myself and Dirtyninety doing one at the moment?

[Nigelw]

I wouldn't say everyone is going an OM606.... DirtyDiesel has one to fit but not done so yet. I only know of myself and Dirtyninety doing one at the moment?

Not just on here Ross, I know 3 fellas here doing 606 swaps, 2 J##ps and a 110, Could be 5 by the end of the month if Bjorn and Niels decide to go same way with their respective RRC and Galloper, shame if Bjorn did the swap as his is a genuine 200Tdi RRC

perhaps the accident damaged P38 in Tilburg is worth a second look? Maybe €1500 takes it and I'd still be able to break the rest for spares? unless it also has a crunchy box then gotta be better than what I have now? Stuck another pint of oil in tonight, so thinking that serious thoughts needs wound into this!

[Nigelw]

Tilburg P38 is an auto :?

Not sure how complicated that makes it?

Diesel auto might be nice

[Daan]

Motivating factors could be resale worth? I dont think any of the conversions are going to help in that department, but cost plenty of dosh. Also, Considering the problem being a knackered engine, any of the above is either going to be out of a lorry, a high mile merc or a rangy that either has a slipped liner or is about to have one. What I am saying here is that you are about to spend a lot of dough for a conversion, and should really think about a rebuild or new engine (and gearbox) to go in.

So I'd say rebuild what you have or buy a crate LS if you want petrol.

Daan

[landroversforever]

Motivating factors could be resale worth? I dont think any of the conversions are going to help in that department, but cost plenty of dosh. Also, Considering the problem being a knackered engine, any of the above is either going to be out of a lorry, a high mile merc or a rangy that either has a slipped liner or is about to have one. What I am saying here is that you are about to spend a lot of dough for a conversion, and should really think about a rebuild or new engine (and gearbox) to go in.

So I'd say rebuild what you have or buy a crate LS if you want petrol.

Daan

My engine and box are pretty likely to be rebuilt before they go in for the final time

[Nigelw]

Motivating factors could be resale worth? I dont think any of the conversions are going to help in that department, but cost plenty of dosh. Also, Considering the problem being a knackered engine, any of the above is either going to be out of a lorry, a high mile merc or a rangy that either has a slipped liner or is about to have one. What I am saying here is that you are about to spend a lot of dough for a conversion, and should really think about a rebuild or new engine (and gearbox) to go in.

So I'd say rebuild what you have or buy a crate LS if you want petrol.

Daan

Because I take you quite seriously Daan I priced up high end replacement parts for an engine rebuild.

No change out of €1300 for parts, block machining, rebore, decking, new cam bearings, gudgeon pin bearings in the rods is looking to hit me for another €700, so ball park lowest estimate is €2K doing it all myself.

Gearbox refurb on top sees that a €3K spend up!

All in all, I will still only have a 200Tdi with not as much power as I'd really like.

I am reluctant to go playin in the fuelling and turbo settings with engine in it's current state of health, so anything adjusted would be after the rebuild, but how adverse are the affects of turning up the power?

[Shackleton]

If you'd consider the p38 BMW unit then there's no reason not to consider the Td5. Comparable power whether tuned of not. (About the same probability of having to do a head gasket) It'll go straight in with little more than some engine mount work. Positioned correctly you'll be able to use your existing prop shafts and you have the choice of two different manual boxes and an auto. Also sound pretty nice with a mild tune too if you ask me.

[Nigelw]

Almost three solid days number crunching has about wrecked my head!

Unlike you lucky folks in the uk donor cars just don't come up in the sub €500 price bracket, watching all the second hand sites for sensible donors these last three weeks has not yet seen a sub €2K car, even burnt out wrecks are in the +€1000 range everything has been ultra high miles too, so basically spending money just to buy something I'm going to have to spend even more on, looked over buying donor out the uk but by the time euro is converted to sterling and I either went to drive it back or got it shipped it just keeps getting more costly.

This is really looking like we are going to be rebuilding what we have, by the time donor is bought stripped, any and all new custom parts fabbed made and modified, the costs could spiral in a rather out of control way

Not talking myself out of a repower just doing some serious sums in a rather objective manner, not as enjoyable as fantasizing and day dreaming but necessary to stop me making a mistake of epic proportions.

[miketomcat]

Why not buy one over hear take it home break it and sell as much as you can that will probably cover the cost of buying it and getting it home and you keep the bits you need.

Mike

[Daan]

Almost three solid days number crunching has about wrecked my head!

Unlike you lucky folks in the uk donor cars just don't come up in the sub €500 price bracket, watching all the second hand sites for sensible donors these last three weeks has not yet seen a sub €2K car, even burnt out wrecks are in the +€1000 range everything has been ultra high miles too, so basically spending money just to buy something I'm going to have to spend even more on, looked over buying donor out the uk but by the time euro is converted to sterling and I either went to drive it back or got it shipped it just keeps getting more costly.

This is really looking like we are going to be rebuilding what we have, by the time donor is bought stripped, any and all new custom parts fabbed made and modified, the costs could spiral in a rather out of control way

Not talking myself out of a repower just doing some serious sums in a rather objective manner, not as enjoyable as fantasizing and day dreaming but necessary to stop me making a mistake of epic proportions.

That's the conclusion I got to, especially in the country you currently reside in. The problem is that lhd cars are in massive demand in eastern europe, which makes any second hand car or parts big bucks. To the point that a new car actually makes sense. over here, because of rhd, most used cars stay on the island, hence cost not a lot.

In the interest of saving you hassle, why not this:

http://turner-engineering.co.uk/html/strippedengines.html

Also, have you considered the TGV? (2.8 version of the tdi). They are being imported in holland I believe.

Daan

[Shackleton]

500 is unrealistically optimistic. I'm a non uk donor buyer. My td5 donor vehicle came up on eBay in 2007 for £1500. I see D2's periodically on there for less than that, you just need to keep an eye out Edit; but you know... ?

[Nigelw]

€500 unrealistic? I was looking for accident damaged donors of popular models! Prepared to go to €1500 but no way above that as I know only too well how the costs can mount up, pipes, brackets, fitting for this that and the other, Having been here once before with a GMC diesel in a RRC, that burned 7k by the time it was road worthy again and was a horrid heavy thing that was money badly wasted! Was not such a problem back then as I had good expendable cash flow, something which I don't have now.

Not really going to procrastinate over this any longer, the hunt for an engine to rebuild has begun!

[Nigelw]

Oh yeah, the 2.8 TGV engine sits at €10K as a full on nut and bolt conversion with everything included.

Way out of my price range

After looking at the Turners site as linked by Daan I have decided to get a 300Tdi to rebuild and then fit in place of the 200, although I'd discounted the 300 initially it does win a lot of merit, not exactly a 250hp 400nm engine, but then again, if it was fully rebuilt at the €2K budget as planned for my own 200, mod the head a bit, save for a VNT and thats as close as I can be to a TGV, BUT it should have more power and reasonable life expectancy for a 300Tdi.

I opted for a 300 over my own 200 purely for the ease of cam belt changes.