Troddenmasses Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I'm sure that we all know of a court case going on at the moment involving somebody who may have made mods and repaired their own vehicle with tragic concequences, and I don't want to dwell on that - because this thread will get deleted if we do, I was wondering how long it will be before the only jobs we are allowed to do on our own vehicles is change the oil and fill up the wash fluid? They managed it with household electrical work - I used to do all my own wiring around the home - I have a degree in electronics, and am pretty good, but because I don't want to pay for the part P ticket, I can't do much at all. I was wondering how long it will be before working on a vehicle is 'vorboten'? Surely, this also has concequences to forward looking small engineering firms. If something goes wrong with one of their 'modification' products and somebody gets hurt or worse, would their insurance cover them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 it would be one way of killing off recycling of older cherished vehicles for sure. with the part P for household electrics, if you were to do any electrical work & didn't have it checked by a 'qualified person' how would anyone else know that you had done the work & not had it checked, nobody is my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 There is talk of a government crack down on paying cash to have jobs done. This will effect small non franchise Land Rover specialists who might do a quick labour only fix for a tenner/twenty in cash. Anything more than that and they might begin to worry about liability should a mistake be traced back to them. The odd few quid here and there does no harm is not worth creating the paperwork and is a useful way to create good will with customers. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 If we were forced to go to a garage there would have to be an accreditation scheme (like C.O.R.G.I.), but there would still be cowboys who do dangerous work. Are there any figures for accidents caused by bodged work? If so are they broken down into D.I.Y. and Trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 It's like that here already. Any modifications that mean the vehicle no longer conforms to the manufacturers type approval mean the vehicle has to be inspected by a local vehicle inspectorate station. However they do not take the responsibility themselves for approving vehicles. What you as an individual have to do is get written documentation supporting your modification and that it is approved for fitting to your (chassis number specific) vehicle. This includes such things as: -Engine conversions -Suspension mods -Changing of tyre size from +/- 5% of that on the V5 -Fitting non standard parts, such as bumpers, winch bumpers, etc. Modifications to the chassis are not allowed, changing body type is near impossible. It's fun, so look forward to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troddenmasses Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 with the part P for household electrics, if you were to do any electrical work & didn't have it checked by a 'qualified person' how would anyone else know that you had done the work & not had it checked, nobody is my guess. They changed the colour of the cables, so you can tell whether the work was done before or after the deadline. That's why there was a lot of quite expensive cable on ebay for a while in the old colours. Nothing at all to stop the government banning it - just think about what a small percentage of the population actually work on their own vehicle, as opposed to just taking it down to the garage. They would just have to set up a registration scheme (perhaps they could call it part Q) and charge garages a nice bit of tax fee to be able to certify their own or other peoples work. When you read what has been said about certain modified vehicles in court, they can make it sound so unreasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest weeble Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 The only way of stopping people working on their own cars is to stop the supply of replacement parts to anything but qualified repairers. The problem is you don`t have to be qualified to set yourself up as a vehicle repairer. When we were in the motor trade and ran a repair workshop up until approx 4 years ago, I was shocked at the standard of some things we saw ranging from poorly fitted components to the incorrect components being fitted. Some of the things were accidents waiting to happen!!!!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troddenmasses Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 It's like that here already.Any modifications that mean the vehicle no longer conforms to the manufacturers type approval mean the vehicle has to be inspected by a local vehicle inspectorate station. However they do not take the responsibility themselves for approving vehicles. What you as an individual have to do is get written documentation supporting your modification and that it is approved for fitting to your (chassis number specific) vehicle. This includes such things as: -Engine conversions -Suspension mods -Changing of tyre size from +/- 5% of that on the V5 -Fitting non standard parts, such as bumpers, winch bumpers, etc. Modifications to the chassis are not allowed, changing body type is near impossible. It's fun, so look forward to it. How about putting 2" longer springs on it and welding a roll cage on? That could be deemed as making it 'much more unstable'. Also, putting mud type tyres on could be said to make "steering in even a straight line difficult" We've all done it, but the problems only start when something goes wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WALFY Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 it would be one way of killing off recycling of older cherished vehicles for sure.with the part P for household electrics, if you were to do any electrical work & didn't have it checked by a 'qualified person' how would anyone else know that you had done the work & not had it checked, nobody is my guess. Didn't the colour of the cables change to conform with the rest of europe. Hence making any new work obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Most mods are sold as "off-road use only" and all the usual disclaimers. As for DIY, I can't see how it would be practical to stop people working on their own cars, even in countries with very strict modification rules people still get their spanners out, it's just that they are more limited in what's allowed on the road. And, without wishing to dwell on the reason behind this post, garages can make just as many mistakes as anyone else so it all comes down to competence. If you b*gger your car up and kill someone, the book will be thrown your way, same as if a garage or even the original manufacturer made a mistake. Vehicle maintenance isn't rocket science and as far as I'm aware most mechanics have no official qualifications to show they're any more competent than Joe public, which would make it rather tricky to regulate the industry as it stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Didn't the colour of the cables change to conform with the rest of europe. Hence making any new work obvious. The new colours were available before the new legislation with part P was brought in, so it's not that clear cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 There is talk of a government crack down on paying cash to have jobs done.This will effect small non franchise Land Rover specialists who might do a quick labour only fix for a tenner/twenty in cash. The paying in cash thing that the government are trying to crack down on, is only so that tax goes back into the coffers, nothing to do with getting "quick jobs" done... something to do with the lame excuse that labour have for trying to "help" the country out of recession... Best way they could help is to call an election! but that's another subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Well on that subject...... went into camerley auto factors and theres a "right to repair campaign" going on! right to repair link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 The only way of stopping people working on their own cars is to stop the supply of replacement parts to anything but qualified repairers.<snip> The same would apply to tools in that case. Both would mean the downfall of an awful lot of businesses and hence an awful lot less tax revenue for the government........not likely IMO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 If we were forced to go to a garage there would have to be an accreditation scheme (like C.O.R.G.I.), but there would still be cowboys who do dangerous work. and you do know the only reason anyone has ever been removed from the corgi register? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redben101 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 With regards to Part P my understanding is that the new cable colours were brought in to be inline with Europe, and according to the NICEIC assesor who visits us yearly it was also so that colour blind people would be able to differentiate between the wires. We regularly go and test houses for safety certificates and find incredible things like no earthing or live wires left bare in the roof so if it helps weed out the duff electricians then all is good. Although we just tested 4 newbuild flats recently which had been given electrical safety certificates and they didnt conform to 16th or 17th edition and that was a relatively large local contractor. But as ever where do you draw the line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I have to say, I'd have limited support for such a scheme. I know a chap who underslung the axles on his Series LR using bent threaded bar as U-bolts. The only way to ensure a quality job is done is with an independent inspection, and the MOT isn't sufficient. That's why we have the SVA, but it's applied in such a way that a- you can get round it, and b- if you don't want to present your vehicle, you can 'get away' with running it on the old V5 etc. It needs to be easier and more accessible to encourage people to get their mods checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 and you do know the only reason anyone has ever been removed from the corgi register? Non payment of subs? My other guess would be boneing the chairman's wife at the Christmas party. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozza35 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 With regards to Part P my understanding is that the new cable colours were brought in to be inline with Europe, and according to the NICEIC assesor who visits us yearly it was also so that colour blind people would be able to differentiate between the wires.We regularly go and test houses for safety certificates and find incredible things like no earthing or live wires left bare in the roof so if it helps weed out the duff electricians then all is good. Although we just tested 4 newbuild flats recently which had been given electrical safety certificates and they didnt conform to 16th or 17th edition and that was a relatively large local contractor. But as ever where do you draw the line? I was under the impression that you can do your own wiring BUT if you come to sell the house it has to have a certificate to say any work done is up to spec (but thats hard as the spec seems to change every week) And i know of plenty of jobs carried out by so called experts that you would think a blind man had done (no disrespect to any blind people reading this ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 so going with the part p electrics, whats the 'new euro' colour code ? as far as I know it's earth -- green/yellow stripe live -- brown nuetral -- blue why do WE [the UK] ALWAYS have to follow europe why the heck don't we thell them to sod off with there dumb rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyzeus Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 so going with the part p electrics, whats the 'new euro' colour code ? as far as I know it's earth -- green/yellow stripe live -- brown nuetral -- blue its the outer layer thats changed, was white now grey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 That is the new scheme. The old scheme is black=neutral red=live The changes are larger when you consider 3ph, see the table here The black/blue swap is the interesting bit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlue88 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 It aint never gonna happen! This country keeps going because of men/women looking after their motors,friends and familys motors etc etc, making it illegal would bring England to a grinding halt...............................Maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treebloke Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 What would happen to the forums . Oh my god, I might have to watch Eastenders, quick, get a petition going . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlue88 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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