Mog 404 axles

[Ed Poore]

True, didn't think of that. Unless it's made into a big cross shape or with a big flat bar that bits into the ali either side...

I'm with Ross in that that countersunk looks like it'll pull through fairly easily.

[ped]

i can't see there being a great deal of pull force on the bell housing as once it's on the mounts it has little room to pull apart as if one part flexes the other mounts go the same way

[Wytze]

7 minutes ago, ped said:

i can't see there being a great deal of pull force on the bell housing as once it's on the mounts it has little room to pull apart as if one part flexes the other mounts go the same way

I'll second that.  If all the bolt's would be like that, i would scratch my head.  

[Stellaghost]

I'm going to make the bolts and see how it feels, they don't need to be silly tight as they are threading into an aluminium block, furthermore they will not be able to undo as the gearbox flange will be over the top of the heads

Regards Stephen

[landroversforever]

My worry is that you’ve got all the load going onto something that’s already shaped nicely to keep pushing material out the way. I’d be very very surprised if they stay tight

[dangerous doug]

11 hours ago, ped said:

i can't see there being a great deal of pull force on the bell housing as once it's on the mounts it has little room to pull apart as if one part flexes the other mounts go the same way

I also thought that but there is probably more than you think with the weight of the engine and gearbox pivoting on the mounts and trying to split while driving. It’ll be worse Offroad. 

[landroversforever]

8 hours ago, dangerous doug said:

I also thought that but there is probably more than you think with the weight of the engine and gearbox pivoting on the mounts and trying to split while driving. It’ll be worse Offroad. 

You also need the clamp load to stop the torque twisting it too. 

[steve b]

50 minutes ago, landroversforever said:

You also need the clamp load to stop the torque twisting it too. 

A couple of dowels will deal with that. 

I think with the csk heads I'd have bigger heads that maybe just break out of each edge of the ally to maximise the contact surface 

Steve

[landroversforever]

1 hour ago, steve b said:

A couple of dowels will deal with that. 

I think with the csk heads I'd have bigger heads that maybe just break out of each edge of the ally to maximise the contact surface 

Steve

Dowels will be for location, not for torque loading. 

[ped]

you could try load testing a single modified bolt ,maybe two bits of ally with the same thread engagement and head contact area
using your engine crane or gantry pick up say 250kg ,if it takes that then i'd not worry about it
i would think the hardend dowels play quite a part in stopping twist as bolt holes have clearance so allow movement but the dowels have a tighter tolerence

[steve b]

Primarily , yes, but they will still add to a firm location . The main point of my post was to have as big a head to ally contact area as possible.

It is a smooth V8 petrol and not a 800hp blown 6BT after all....

Steve

[TD5toV8110]

The obvious solution is for Stephen to turn up some custom bolts with oversized heads from a chunk of unobtanium, then harden them in his hand crafted charcoal fueled forge . 

 

Job done,

 

Next...

🤪

[muddy]

Could you make a small brass 'cup' or mould that you could hold against the edge of the ally whilst filling with the welder to put some more meat into the area around the bolt head and thus use a standard countersink?

[Stellaghost]

Thanks for all the suggestions, however I'm changing tack

What does this tell you ?

tells me im not happy, my adaptor will work but it looks s##t, I'm in agreeance that socket caps will ultimately work better and for that I need it to be solid

I'm not making a proper casting, just a blank I can machine,  to assist with this I'm awaiting delivery of a largish rotary table, so I can do the machining with the bridgeport mill,  the monstrosity I've made will be a good template to work from

Regards Stephen 

 

[Daan]

I just love you.

[ped]

a blumming big rotary table to get a bell housing adapter in
we have a 10 " onee and it weighs a ton to get on

[Stellaghost]

Just now, ped said:

a blumming big rotary table to get a bell housing adapter in
we have a 10 " onee and it weighs a ton to get on

I've got a 12" one coming anything bigger just gets stupidly expensive, the 12" won't be big enough but by the time I've made an adaptor to fit it it will do the job nicely, some 20mm plate me thinks

Regards Stephen 

[Ed Poore]

Just need a bigger flywheel and a starter motor gear to suit... Simple shaft for it to sit on and job done 

[Stellaghost]

1 minute ago, Ed Poore said:

Just need a bigger flywheel and a starter motor gear to suit... Simple shaft for it to sit on and job done 

Perfectly acceptable for a rough A#se like you.......lol

I at least try to be a craftsman.....

Regards Stephen 

[ped]

2 minutes ago, Stellaghost said:

I've got a 12" one coming anything bigger just gets stupidly expensive, the 12" won't be big enough but by the time I've made an adaptor to fit it it will do the job nicely, some 20mm plate me thinks

Regards Stephen 

the one we have when new was stupidly expensive
what capacity has your mill width wise and is it worth doing half a dozen adapters whilst you are set up

 

[CwazyWabbit]

9 minutes ago, ped said:

the one we have when new was stupidly expensive
what capacity has your mill width wise and is it worth doing half a dozen adapters whilst you are set up

 

There's a picture of the mill in one of the other threads, IIRC it's not your standard Bridgeport

[Stellaghost]

1 hour ago, CwazyWabbit said:

There's a picture of the mill in one of the other threads, IIRC it's not your standard Bridgeport

That's correct, you can fit upto 3 different heads on it or three of the same with different tooling in, both travel axis seem to have a lot of scope, much more than my AEW Viceroy universal mill

Regards Stephen 

[Ed Poore]

32 minutes ago, Stellaghost said:

Perfectly acceptable for a rough A#se like you.......lol

I at least try to be a craftsman.....

Regards Stephen 

Well a decent flywheel and crankshaft for it to sit in would be nicely balanced. Find a Timken bearing for it to sit inside and then use the starter gear to turn the main flywheel. Hell if you wanted I've got a wee 24V geared motor with an encoder on it that would position the starter gear to within <0.1° .

Hell I've even got an overkill driver board for it I made yesterday ready to populate for another job. Could etch another circuit board in half an hour if you wanted - although this one is for a 1HP 180VDC 3000RPM motor (but drives my little geared motor quite happily). Can handle up to 380V off a single phase supply.

rough A#se my a#se - I seem to recall @Daan commenting I, at least drove, with some grace squeezing the 110 down through those tracks at Seven Sisters . But yes I can be a rough a#se sometimes.

[CwazyWabbit]

8 hours ago, Stellaghost said:

--snip--

--snip--

Are you planning on pouring the aluminium directly against the steel? 

I've not cast aluminium since I was at school but when it cools surely it will shrink against the inner ring, whilst I don't doubt that you can cut the ring out is there a chance that the shrinkage against an 'immovable' object could crack the casting?

I'm probably talking out of my backside, but perhaps the ring would be better with some kind of joint that allowed it to slip?

Also is there any chance that the steel will cause the aluminium to cool too quickly and ruin your pour?

Just idle thoughts which I imagine you've already thought about.

[Stellaghost]

5 hours ago, CwazyWabbit said:

Are you planning on pouring the aluminium directly against the steel? 

I've not cast aluminium since I was at school but when it cools surely it will shrink against the inner ring, whilst I don't doubt that you can cut the ring out is there a chance that the shrinkage against an 'immovable' object could crack the casting?

I'm probably talking out of my backside, but perhaps the ring would be better with some kind of joint that allowed it to slip?

Also is there any chance that the steel will cause the aluminium to cool too quickly and ruin your pour?

Just idle thoughts which I imagine you've already thought about.

Good points, I had not thought about making the inner ring slip, however I was planning on pouring the aluminium into a hot mold so it wasn't hitting a cold mold

Regards Stephen